Wayne Township Goes Further Into Debt
Posted by Mike Sylvester - 7/31/08 @ 6:04 pm - Filed Under Featured, Local Politics
The Wayne Township Trustee asked for another million dollar loan; and the Wayne Township Advisory Board approved the loan by a vote of two to one. You can read more in the News Sentinel.
There are two things about this article that bother me.
The first is the fact that the News Sentinel reports that one of the reasons Maria Parra voted “no” on this issue was because she knew the other two Board members would vote “yes.”
I think Maria Parra has done a good job in questioning the Township finances and I think that the finances of Wayne Township need to be further analyzed. I am glad Maria Parra voted no; however, she should not vote no because she knew it would pass due to the other members voting yes…
The second is a quote from Wayne Township Trustee, Rick Stevenson, saying that the loan is needed due to the “Bush Economy.” The Wayne Township Trustee needs to learn more about economics and stop spouting inane Democratic talking points. I would suggest he ask some of the same questions that Maria Parra has been asking rather then blaming the President of the United States. He might also want to learn more about Congress and its roll in the economy since we have a Democratic Congress and they have a much large effect on the economy then a lame duck President.
As the readers of this blog know I feel that we are headed towards some difficult times; however, we are not there yet. We are not in a recession; in fact, the economy just grew by 1.9% this most recent quarter and unemployment is significantly below normal levels.
It makes one wonder how much money the Wayne Township Trustee would ask for if we were in a real recession or if unemployment were actually high.
Mike Sylvester
Comments
41 Responses to “Wayne Township Goes Further Into Debt”
Leave a Reply
Mike:
What is normal? Is there a formula that is used such as a percentage of employed individuals, or do we rely on a figure that seems to be “acceptable” to the public?
Charlotte,
That is a great question. Unemployment rates in the US have varied between 3.9% and 10.8% since 1970. If the figures are averaged then the average unemployment rate since Jan of 1970 is 6.1% according to the Federal Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Unemployment is currently 5.5%.
Looking at the statistics I would say that normal is between 5% and 7.2%.
When Bill Clinton was President the average unemployment rate was 5.2%.
So far in the current Bush’s presidency unemployment has averaged 5.2% as well.
It is amazing what the statistics show when you look at them objectively rather than listen to the political talking points of EITHER major political party.
Many economists claim that full employment is around 4%; meaning that at least 4% of the population will always be changing jobs or in transit from one job to another…
Mike Sylvester
Mike,
Looking at average unemployment statistics is a bogus measure. A President needs to be measured by the change during his tenure.
For example if President A were to take over with an unemployment rate of 7% and it drops to 5% and President B were take over at 5% and it goes up to 7% then they both could average 6% but that doesn’t tell the story.
Any objective analysis of the Clinton presidency vs the Bush presidency would show that the economy under Clinton created VASTLY more jobs than under Bush.
In fact, this reminds me of an enlightening statistic:
Every single Democratic President has had a larger average annual increase in jobs than every Republican President.
That is a fact voters shouldn’t forget!
Jeff,
Why on Earth would you think that average unemployment is a bogus measure?
It is one of many ways to measure employment and it is a simple one to use when looking at a broad indicator of the health of the economy.
I do agree with your comment about the change in unemployment…
I am not sure that I agree with your comparison between Bush and Clinton; however, that was not the purpose of my post.
Your last statistic is meaningless unless you look at which party was in control of Congress. The Congress is far more responsble for the creation of jobs then the President!
The Wayne Township Trustee is spouting a “silly” and inaccurate Demcoratic talking point when he should be anaylzing his Township’s finances…
Mike
Mike,
I gave a specific example of why I think it’s bogus but I’ll meet you half-way here. I would say it’s bogus if used isolation; when viewed “as one of many ways to measure employment” I think it’s ok.
I’m not sure what there is to disagree on between the Clinton and Bush economies - the raw BLS numbers are overwhelming.
Also, I disagree that Congress is “far more responsible” for creating jobs, but maybe I’m in the minority on that I don’t know.
Trustee Stevenson is trying to play catch up due to the way the finances have been handled during the previous administration. Does he need to recognize the hardship all local govt bodies face and cut spending? Yes, and I think he will…
Jeff,
Please explain to me how the President of the United States creates jobs. Jobs are created by American companies and Americans. Congress effects job growth based on taxation, regulation, and trade policy.
Congress tends to have far more influence on tax policy and regulation then the President.
We have a lame duck President and both houses of Congress are held by the opposite Party. President Bush has little influence on legislation; in fact, the Democrats have the power to make the changes they want and they just refuse to do it.
You then go on to say that Trustee Stevenson “is trying to play catch up due to the way the finances have been handled during the previous adminsitration.” What facts do you base this statement on? This sounds like blind political rhetoric to me.
The previous Trustee did not continually borrow money.
Please name three major programs Trustee Stevenson has cut since he has been in office.
Please name three financial “mis-steps” made by the previous Trustee…
Mike
Mike,
I don’t feel like discussing the Congressional/Presidential interaction right now - maybe some other time.
As for this statement - “Please name three major programs Trustee Stevenson has cut since he has been in office.”
I can only go by what I read in the JG and what I heard at Tuesday’s meeting. Here’s the JG report:
That’s more than three policy changes and like I said I think there will be more.
You also ask - “Please name three financial “mis-steps” made by the previous Trustee…”
I didn’t say anything about mis-steps whatsoever - it was a difference in philosophy. Again from the Deputy Auditor as quoted in the JG:
You’re pointing the finger without looking at the history of the situation…
Jeff,
You and I both got fairly side tracked in this post.
In my opinion, The Wayneship Trustee needs to sit down with Maria Parra and they need to figure out how to more efficiently run Wayne Township rather than try to pass the blame to current economic conditions.
No other Township is the area is having any kind of financial problems…
Mike Sylvester
The irony of the “Bush economy” comment is, we probably know more about the budget and finances of the US Government than we do about those of Wayne Township.
Mike, when you say “No other Township is the area is having any kind of financial problems…” that is a bit disingenuous, no? Wayne Township has the highest percentage of its population who are lower income, and is the only township in the area (at least in Allen County) that has a history of being a full-time social services provider. The other townships, to the extent that they actually provide assistance, do it on a much smaller scale and part-time basis.
I have no idea what sort of financial problems the other townships are having, and I am going to guess that you don’t either, because the other townships are much smaller and therefore not deemed worthy of coverage in the local media. If I’m wrong, and you know that things are going well in the other townships (assuming these townships are providing township assistance in amounts proportional to what Wayne Twp is expected to do), please correct me.
Karen,
Regardless of the qualification and rationalization of the situation, is Mike’s statement not true?
Do Townships have a charter for “being a full-time social services provider”? And if so, how many layers of Government social services Federal, State, City, County, Township are available (necessary and taxpayer funded) to address the issue? And what about other assistance from other community and faith based organizations?
How did it become a township responsibility?
This discussion leads me to the debate about, have Townships outlived their purpose in this day and age? I can see where early in the State’s history it may have made sense, but doesn’t it seem a but redundant today, at least in Fort Wayne and Allen County? How many layers of Government do we need, how many elected officicals? Aren’t the City and County enough (if not too much)?
Interesting Mr. Rost. Your Boy Kelty during the campaign, said that discussion of governement consolidation was immoral.
Fred Rost said, “The irony of the “Bush economy” comment is, we probably know more about the budget and finances of the US Government than we do about those of Wayne Township.”
Are you kidding me? I find it hard to believe you are that ignorant- orjust relying on the ignorance of others?. The ideological drive of this administration has been to further executive power and impede any openness. What do you think the scandals and indictments of the Justice Dept, NASA, EPA, Dept. of Labor, GSA, Dept. of Agriculture…well every dept. have been about? Oh yea, nobody is allowed to testify in front of Congress…give me a break.
‘
Providing assistance to the poor has been something TOWNSHIPS have provided nearly from their start. In researching family history I came across in the mid 1800’s where a nearby farmer’s family had to seek township aid after he had been killed.
Karen is right about the poor that by a large number live in Wayne Township. I think if you check this is followed by Adams Township. Adams Township tax rates continue to grow year after year as they try to meet the needs of the poor.
I agree that when Townships where set up is when everyone moved about either by walking or a horse. That riding a horse from southern Allen County to Fort Wayne at times was a three to four day round trip.
I have no clue how well or how bad Wayne Township is ran. To pass judgement just because of the needs of the poor says nothing of fact.
Fred,
You might want to get some facts before spouting more ideology-without any empirical facts. If you think surrounding counties or any township trustees are a fountain of liberal money, you have no clue. My personal and professional experience is that they are old fart Republicans, all of whom are farmers, who take their salary and don’t want to bother with helping anyone.
Sorry Off topic:
A Big IE7 Problem on the Web - Update: Sitemeter Responsible?
Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 6:56:09 pm PST…West Coast time.
It appears I have the same problem here in Indiana.
“I’ve confirmed that there’s some kind of problem on the Internet, that only seems to affect users of the Internet Explorer 7 web browser. Attempting to browse to many sites results in an ‘Operation Aborted’ error. No information about the problem elsewhere yet … stay tuned.
UPDATE at 8/1/08 7:20:27 pm:
It appears to be related to Sitemeter.com — browsing to their web site with Internet Explorer 7 produces the error too.”
Not sure whats going on, yet I have the same problem in trying to access the Internet and sites.
Bobett;
Thanks for the information. I am having the same problem here. It’s interesting what you said about the sitemeter connection. I have three blogs. The only one that I can not access at this time is the one with sitemeter on it.
Phil:
Interesting problem. I just tried to log onto Michelle Malkin and got the actual home page but then was told IE couldn’t open the site. Odd. Is this happening at Daily Kos too?
Everything works out…. on the long term:
Expectation fails, and most oft there wins
Where most it promises; and oft it hits
Where hope is coldest, and despair most fits.
— William Shakespeare
Bobett;
This is really bothersome. Now Dan Turkette’s and Mitch Harpers sites are alos blocked on my computer. This was not the case only about about four hours ago. Maybe the government has finally had enough and has decided to shut down the blogs. - LOL
Fred,
You asked an important question - “How did it become a township responsibility?”
I’m not sure when this happened but there is an entire chapter in the Indiana Code (12-20) dedicated to Township Assistance.
As for eliminating the township construct, I’m all for that. In fact this would seem to make the most sense to those in Wayne township where there is a higher concentration of poor households.
Now when the need for poor assistance increases in Wayne township they have to increase taxes on everybody in Wayne township - a circular reference that only exacerbates the problem.
If it were handled at the county level then the county-wide burden (including those concentrated in Wayne township) could be shared across all townships. It might even be possible to make up the very slight increase in taxes those outside of Wayne township would see by gaining efficiencies through the elimination of all the individual township government offices.
Phil/Bobett,
When the internet bully takes down everyone else, FWP stays strong (I think) - heh…
I did fine the issue with my blog, I had trouble accessing it as well.
Mitch and mine are are different servers, so I don’t know what was/is up with his blog. It took me a bit this morning to discover some ad code that came along with a copy-paste I did quoting an article. It seems better now. Next time email me!
I should have read farther up the comments. I’m going to comment out the SiteMeter code until I find out more.
From Wire.com
The problem appears to be affecting IE 5.5, 6.0 and 7.0. Internet surfers using IE to access a site that has SiteMeter tracking it receive a message saying the site cannot be loaded and “operation aborted.” The issue seems to have begun late afternoon Friday.
That’s what was happening to me until just a while ago. I think I’m going to install a different statistics program.
Dan,
I use StatCounter and I like it better than sitemeter
I’ve posted a fix at http://www.angrywhiteboy.org
Ok, I had a thought related to the original post. The reason townships were created in the first place was so that people had a unit of government available to them within a day’s walking distance. So if you lived in the SE corner of the county, you only had to travel 3 miles to the township office rather than 10 miles to the to the county office. Thanks to the internal combustion engine, we can travel father in an hour than our ancestors could travel in a day.
The question is now, do we even still need townships? Poverty relief could be handled by the state, fire and EMS could be handled by the county.
Sigmund,
I could care less about Party when it comes to who runs the Townships. I am questioning the utility and efficiency of the Township government construct any more. It seems redundant.
With regard to budgets, my point is the President’s annual fiscal budget as well as all the Congressional Appropriation Bills are readily available to anyone online, where Maria Para in Wayne Township is being refused access to the Township’s financial information. I just don’t see any reason for not having the same amount of fiscal transparency at the local level, as is available at the Federal.
Finally, if you recall, former mayoral candidate Matt Kelty was against an Indianapolis/Marion County type consolidation for Fort Wayne and Allen County. He believed it simply was not a good approach for this area, and I agree with him.
He did however campaign on and believe there are a number of City/County areas that could be consolidated to improve efficiencies and reduce costs, and I with him on that also.
I believe the current administration has picked up on that, and even some City and County Council members agree with the approach Kelty represented last year. In fact, according to the Fort Wayne Director of Purchasing, a considerable amount of consolidation in purchasing for both the City and County is already being done, and serious discussions about emergency services are just beginning. You have to start somewhere.
Dan,
So was I flattering myself when I thought you blocked me from your site after calling you out for the racist crap you have been spewing? Am I right?
Mike,
This continual cry of “being more efficient” becomes a hollow cliche. Let’s see..every politician wants to have more efficient government. The Republicans have run this county for 50 years. Ya, I know you think they are not fiscally conservative enough…bla bla bla.
Like it or not these purely ideological bromides have become old hat and people are catching on. The “slogans” have become old…we have heard them for 30 years. Tax cuts for the rich DO NOT pay for themselves-the Laffer curve is just that. It only produces laughter. Rich people who have their taxes cut don’t invest in jobs…they invest to make money. All power to them because that is a basic fact of capitalism.
All your spouting about unemployment rates disregards the pay scale. To be honest in discussing these stats you need to examine the median…because as you well know the top 10% has reaped incredible benefits in the last 8 years. And they are obviously not investing in meaningful economically productive activities. Just look at the housing problem. No regulation, unbelievably low interest rates and prompting by the federal reserve is an open ticket to print money. Hey and guess what the dollar falls to all time record lows…go figure.
It doesn’t have anything to do with personal responsibilty or the acts of Congress in the last year and a half.
Sorry Mike I thought you had a bit more thoughtfulness than to blame Dems. for a structural problem that has festered for over 8 years. …oome now…you might want to preserve some credibility
Karen Goldner,
Nothing about my post is “disingenuous” and I am relatively certain that you understand that; you are just trying to defend the Wayne Township Trustee and you do not want to do any research before taking the time to defend him.
Wayne Township does have more folks in the poor income bracket; however, that does not mean that they necessarily need more assistance.
In my opinion those who are in trouble right now often are NOT those who are poor. It is those who are middle classed and spent far more then they could afford to spend.
I have heard nothing to convince me that other Townships are in any trouble at all financially; however, if you disagree you should take the time to research them rather then ask me to do the research for you!
Mike Sylvester
Karen Goldner,
I just got back from vacation when I read your comment and I decided to go out and spray my ditches for weeds before really looking at your comment where you ask if my post is “disingenuos.”
The definition of disingenuous is:
lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere
And after re-reading my post I have to say that I am 100% certain that there is nothing in that post that I would consider “disingenuous.”
I have relatively thick skin; however, I have to admit that I did not care for you use of the word “disingenuous” to describe my post…
Luckily, I have thicker skin then the people who contacted Jeff Pruitt and told him that they thought he was insulting Mrs. McGauley’s intelligence in an earlier post…
Your use of the word “disingenuous” is far more insulting then anything I can read in Jeff’s post about tax abatements and Mrs. McGauley…
Just my opinion,
Mike Sylvester
Dear Mike:
My definition of disingenuous includes misleading, and I DO think that the implication of your statement (that Wayne Township is the only township in financial trouble) is misleading and lacking in candor, for the reasons I said in my post.
And all I asked you to do was to support your own argument with evidence.
Sorry if those statements came across as insulting - I really am. They were meant to be frank but not insulting, so please accept my apology.
Karen
Karen,
An apolgy is not necessary, I am trying to make a point…
Your comment must be in regards to my comment I made to Jeff (Not the original post) where I said “No other Township is the area is having any kind of financial problems…”
My comment is certainly a generalization I will grant you that; however, I have looked at the books of two other Allen County Townships in the last three months and neither are in financial trouble…
Possibly I should have said in my comment that “No other Township is the area is having any kind of financial problems that I know of.”
Please feel free to step forward and point out any other Township in Allen County that you know of that is in financial trouble…
Mike
Mike:
I used to think that you contributed something useful to the discussion of issues around here, but now I see that you’re really just an average everyday bully. Throwing around my wife’s name in a post about the Wayne Township Trustee’s Office really shows it.
I’m one of the people who wrote to Jeff last week to protest the language used in relation to my wife’s recent presentation to City Council. If you wouldn’t have done the same for your wife had those things been said about her, then quite frankly that says more about you than it says about me.
When you protest someone WRONGLY questioning your wife’s intelligence, honesty or forthrightness that’s not being thin-skinned, that’s being honorable.
You must have some kind of ulterior motive for calling her out, over and over again, for a policy that is the SOLE possession of the City Council and the city administration.
Do you really not understand who is responsible for incentive policy around here? Or is it just more fun to make ignorant comments and post YouTube videos about people who can’t fight back.
Why don’t you guys do something useful and figure out who is actually responsible for the policies you object to before you object.
John,
I think we all understand who’s responsible for the policies and we have repeatedly addressed them.
In fact my latest post does this once again…
John McGauley,
You have got to be kidding me. How on Earth can you consider me a bully for illustrating my point using an example of another item that recently occurred on this blog?
I do not have a problem with you protesting to Jeff Pruitt that you were offended by his post. I have read Jeff’s post several times and I would NOT have taken exception to it if he would have written that post about my wife. I do not think his post was insulting at all. This is a free country and you are entitled to your own opinion.
Heck, I do not have a problem with you calling me a “bully” for using your wife in an example in my disagreemnt with Karena Goldner. I think it is an entirely inaccurate term for my comment; however, I am not offended by your opinion and you are entitled to it.
It is obvious that you completely missed my point; however, I imagine that you would just get more offended if I explain it again so I will not further upset you.
I have not called your wife out on ANYTHING to my recollection. If you think this is wrong please post a link to a post where I call out your wife on ANYTHING.
I do have a problem with our tax abatement policies and I have made that apparent in this blog, in my previous blog, and at City Council meetings and hearings. I agree with Jeff that this is a problem that needs to be addressed by the Mayor and by City Council.
You next comment makes the least sense out of your entire post:
“Do you really not understand who is responsible for incentive policy around here? Or is it just more fun to make ignorant comments and post YouTube videos about people who can’t fight back.”
Of course I understand who is responsible, I post about it frequently and have on this blog and my previous blog for a couple of years. You should read this blog before you make inaccurate comments like the one above.
I also must say that I do not even know how to post a UTube video nor have I EVER posted one in my life. You might want to consider the fact that there are multiple constributors to this blog and you should most likely read the name of the person making the post before attributing the post to a completely different person.
“Why don’t you guys do something useful and figure out who is actually responsible for the policies you object to before you object.”
You do realize that I have talked to most of the members of City Council about this personally? For example, Karen Goldner is my City Council representative she and I have discussed this multiple times. If you were to ask Karen I am sure she would verify that she and I have discussed and disagreed on tax abatement policy multiple times in person and on this blog and my previous blog. We especially dsicussed this during her campaign for City Council.
You do realize I have sent letters to every City Councilman individually telling them what I think about this policy?
You do realize that I have spoken at several City Council meetings and hearings concerning tax abatements?
You do realize that I have written items about this that have appeared in the local newspapers?
And last but not least; I would think you realize that in none of the above situations did I ever mention your wife.
In fact, the only time I THINK that I have mentioned your wife was in one comment in which I was using her as an example (Earlier on this thread)…
If I would have known how sensitive you were to your wife’s name being mentioned you can rest assured I would not have mentioned her name.
Mike Sylvester
Okay, I get it: we are going to start a post about the Wayne Township Trustee and then talk about everything BUT the Wayne Township Trustee. Does Elizabeth McGauley work for Rick Stevenson? Does Dan Turkette work for Rick Stevenson? What does Bill Shakespeare have to do with this discussion? Have I missed something here? And just exactly what were we talking about, anyways?!
Mr. McGauley - I assume that you are aware that the boss of the city department where your wife, Elissa, works IS per city code 153.13 responsible for developing (by the Director of the Department of the Community Development Division) “those procedures necessary for the orderly application, administration and monitoring of economic revitalization areas”, submitting same to the City Council finance committee for approval by the Common Council of the whole. How can you then state that your wife’s department “is in no way responsible for the designation of ERA’s?”
I hate to jump into this slugfest but do want to say, Mike, that while you are correct and we do disagree on some aspects of tax abatement we agree on other parts. It was our conversation at the Dash-in early in the campaign that helped me see how the system is not as friendly to small businesses as we’d (I’d) like it to be. When we bring our recommendations down to Council (”we” being Councilwoman Brown and I, with considerable help from Elissa as well as Molly McCray) I hope that you will see your perspective represented.
Karen Goldner,
I know that you are working on some positive changes to our tax abatement policy along with Liz Brown. I have talked to Liz Brown about the issue on two different occassions as well.
Mike Sylvester