Harrison Square condos
Posted by Mike Sylvester - 9/3/08 @ 10:17 pm - Filed Under Featured, Local Politics
The local media is reporting that a grand total of ten of the sixty two Harrison Square condos planned for the first phase have finally been sold. A big deal is being made about the new marketing blitz that is occurring to sell the condos. Give me a break.
They are going to have a hard time selling condos priced for $140,000 - $340,000 in downtown Fort Wayne.
Consider this:
I live in a house that cost me $206,500 eight years ago. It sits on one acre of land, it is 3450 square feet, it has an attached oversized three car garage, and a huge attic. It is about 20 years old.
There are seven condo designs:
- 1 Bedroom, Jefferson, 693 square feet
- 1 Bedroom, Anderson, 982 square feet
- 2 Bedroom, Carson, 1058 square feet
- 2 Bedroom, Nelson, 1091 square feet
- 2 Bedroom, Wilson, 1141 square feet
- 2 Bedroom, Madison, 1531 square feet
- 3 Bedroom, Jackson, 1217 square feet
So the average condo is the 2 bedroom Nelson condo at 1091 Square feet. The middle price for the condos per the local media is $240,000.
Lets compare my house to this condo:
- School District, I live in NACS and Harrison Sqaure is in FWCS. Without a doubt I live in a stronger school district.
- My house would likely sell for about what I purchased it for 8 years ago or $206,500. So my house is $33,500 cheaper.
- My house is over three times the size of the condo.
- The condo is new, my house is 20 years old. This is the one item that is favorable for the condos.
This mess is getting more and more painful to watch. Let there be no doubt the condos are not going to be completed anywhere near the contractually promised time. I would not be surprised if they are built more then a year late at this point!
Mike Sylvester
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15 Responses to “Harrison Square condos”
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Mike:
While I usually really enjoy your posts and trust your logic I’m not seeing your logic on this one.
1. I doubt the target market of the condo development is people with school age children headed to FWCS.
2. The condo would see for likely the same or more than it sold for as well. I DO get though that your house is cheaper per square foot.
3. See #2.
4. No problems here.
Neil:
I certainly agree that their target market is different!
I guess I just do not see the value and it looks like the market agrees with me do far since they have not been able to sell them…
Mike
Who exactly is the target market for these condos, Neil? Fort Wayne’s primary appeal is that it is low cost urban living. Two years ago I bought a two story, two bedroom house with a condo for 30K. 5 minutes from downtown, 20 minutes from the interstate. What would motivate someone to pay $170,000 more for the same amount of living space?
Mike,
I’m worried these condos will never be built. I always assumed the hotel would be colossal failure, and I think it still will be, but I thought the condos would do better than this.
Marketing isn’t the problem. Are there really interested buyers out there that just don’t know what the Harrison is all about? No. The problem doesn’t seem to be that people don’t want to live downtown, it’s that they don’t want to pay that much to do so…
Jeff,
I am not sure if they will ever be built either…
I do think there are a few people who want to live downtown; however, they do not want to pay significantly more then an upscale condo in the suburbs would cost…
Mike
Mike,
Perhaps a more accurate comparison would be Midtowne Crossing, the only difference being they are not located at the ballpark. Places at Midtown Crossing, I believe, are larger and selling for around $50K last I checked.
They will find a way to redefine the condo project to declare victory, although it will be so transparently obvious to everyone it is a sham, to simply be a joke. But joke or not the City is still stuck with it.
I still haven’t got a good bead on the progress of the retail space and the status of the hotel. If there is going to be a hearing by City Council, it should be a program review that looks at both cost and schedule as well as the progress and accomplishments on the overall objectives of the project (condos, hotel, retail …). Citizens will be shortchanged if City Council only quizzes folks on the condos.
I’d like to see City Council put as much time, energy, detail and passion into a comprehensive review of the entire Harrison Square project, as they expended on the $23M City-County IT contract. In terms of balance, it would seem only fair, and don’t they owe that oversight to the taxpaying public?
I like how when things go south (i.e. FWCS, Harrison Square), it’s blamed on “marketing”.
Kristina - the marketing chick.
Fred,
I agree Midtown Crossing would be a better comparison; however, the truth of the matter is that there is no fair comparison in downtown for the project. That is one of the things that has caused the project to falter. They are having a difficult time convincing people to purchase condos at a cost that is dramatically higher then nearby condos.
I also agree 100% that City Council needs to spend AT LEAST as much time analyzing Harrison Square as it did outsourcing the IT services.
Kristina,
I agree marketing is not the problem. The cost of the condos and is the problem.
Are you really a “marketing chick?”
Mike Sylvester
Mike,
Even worse.
I’m a marketing AND IT chick. I’m the worst possible combination - a CIO’s nightmare ;).
I lead up our marketing, sales, and customer engineering applications at Cummins.
IT people are generally scared of Marketing people and Marketing people have very little patience for IT people.
It’s a great role :).
Kristina
1 BR units at Midtowne are going anywhere from 40-60k and 2 BR are anywhere from 60k to 110k+
Before Harrison Square was announced you could get a 1 BR for 20-30k. Demand has been high ever since and prices have gone up.
The biggest unit at Midtowne is 1470 sq ft. The smallest units are just below 500 sq ft. There are 104 units.
There are 6 buildings at Midtowne: 2 built in 1989/90 and the others being historical buildings that are 70-100+ years old.
The main difference between Midtowne and The Harrison is that Midtowne was a redevelopment project and The Harrison is new construction.
The Harrison looks to be overpriced in comparison (I think it is), but it IS new construction and is structured differently with its location above the ballpark and new retail. Whether or not that has value to people is a matter of personal perception/values/lifestyle choices.
It may be easy to say they are overpriced since not many are taken but they also require a 10% upfront down payment. Easier said than done in a lot of cases.
Kristina, my brother-in-law worked at Microsoft years ago and said that the marketing people (he was one) were called “scum” by the developers who in turn were (of course) called geeks. You must be very conflicted :-)
And on the more general topic, I am told by Tom Didier that the Berry folks will be coming to a council meeting later this month to discuss the condo project (I don’t believe a date has been set yet.)
Karen,
What about a comprehensive program review on the HS project? It is a whole lot more than just condos. Perhaps a special session might be scheduled to provide the time necessary.
Price is the issue, and the situation only gets worse as time passes and the focus stays on the lack of sales/interest. Even people who have interest and means would see no reason to rush into a purchase, particularly with no construction start date and the prospect of ever increasing discounts.
I’m sure Scott’s numbers are reliable. While I’m no expert, I think the prices at the Harrison are stil about 40% above what the market will bear. I think the “young professionals” who supported this project but aren’t buying in are simply being prudent. Buy now and in 5 years, when a bigger place in the burbs looks better, they may find their condo is worth considerably less than their purchase price.
The NS Kevin Leininger’s take on this issue
http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080904/NEWS/809040333
FYI!
Also - see the posts and comments at Whats Going Down(town) on this subject - http://www.whatsgoingdowntown.com