New Ice Rink On the Way
Posted by Jeff Pruitt - 9/15/08 @ 10:52 am - Filed Under Featured, Local Politics
The mayor announced a new public-private partnership today - you can read the full press release here. I must say it sounds much more private than public which is certainly a good thing:
A local development group, 3 Sheets Development, LLC, submitted plans today to develop 22 acres of land on Lima and Wells Streets, across from Glenbrook Commons. The first parcel to be developed will be a facility with three sheets of ice that the group calls “Spiece on Ice,” a reference to the successful basketball center located just a mile north on Lima, to indicate the sort of regional draw they expect to bring to the facility, as hockey leagues from several states will hold tournaments and events there.
“This proposed project will redevelop a brownfield site,” pointed out Mayor Henry. “This is the sort of investment and “in-fill” development we encourage in the City, and we will be participating by providing some infrastruture improvements in the way of a road and bike path along the Pufferbelly Trail.” Henry said the City’s commitment is expected to represent about $250,000 of this $12 million project.
I can live with with $250k in public money for a road and bike path for $14 million of private investment. As a side effect of this project the city will no longer be in the ice management business as the plan calls for a private management firm to oversee the new arena as well as McMillen ice arena:
Part of the plans include a management firm to oversee both the new facility and the City-owned McMillen Ice Arena. Three Sheets is working with Canlan Ice Sports out of Canada for management services. McMillen has two sheets of ice, but Parks and Recreation Director Al Moll says one of those is in need of expensive repair and will likely be shut down.
What’s not clear to me at this point is who exactly will be footing the bill for this management firm. I hope the city isn’t picking up the entire tab since the majority of their work will be done at the new privately-owned arena. And of course there’s still the question of what to do with McMillen:
The City will still own the McMillen building and Moll said he and Mayor will be putting together a blue ribbon committee of citizens to study and suggest alternate programming which might be offered at the site or new uses for the portion of the building with the un-used sheet of ice.
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20 Responses to “New Ice Rink On the Way”
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It sounds good. It ought to run better privately.
Hopefully, they can make this work and draw some out-of-towners to Fort Wayne with the Spiece model. It’s harder to make a sports facility work than most people think. Downtown proponents will wish this was placed somewhere near downtown but this is more realistic…
One thing about privately run sports versus parks run sports is that it seems like people feel it is their right to bitch about things more when it’s publicly run. Sports obviously follows a pattern there…
I wish them the best of luck. I will also support a tax abatement on the property.
This project will never make any of the partners in it rich. This project will not employ many people, let alone high wages. This project is a private community project that we all should hope makes it. This is one project that if it can break even it will be a huge sucess story!
This group has taken this project further then any other group has over the years, and there have been many. That is a good sign.
I will wait until we hear the details. If the managment of the Mac rink was not part of this plan I would not say a thing outside of wishing them the best of luck.
Keep in mind if they draw a large percentage of the business away from Mac then either we underwrite it or get out of the ice business. If we get out and they end up failing then the people of Fort Wayne will have no ice.
I’ve been skating at McMillen for seven years. Last year the new management greatly extended public skating hours, which was great but it was still sparsely attended. The newer rink at the MAC is a fine facility. I don’t know what the economics of running one rink are but I would like to see it stay open.
Evert,
Being as old as dirt my first ice skating was at Mac before it even had compressors. They would flood the tennis courts (that is what it started from) and as long as it was cold, we skated.
Then came “frozen ice” and we could skate until the temps got into the low 50’s. What a trip!!!!
We played hockey on the frozen ice with blizzard like snow blowing acorss the surface, light rain coming from the skys, or ten below zero. We did not care as we had “frozen ice!”
We then made it to heaven…. They put up this huge building. Life was good….
Some us love the ice and to skate or play hockey is something we much love. So this is like a blessing we all have hoped for but also hope it does not turn into a nightmare.
Sadly, the sucess is all on econimics of the operation. Building methods have improved, compressors to keep the ice frozen have improved greatly, and the size of the Fort Wayne area has grown. All help to maybe make this a sucess but the “proof is in the pudding!”
This project has been on the backburner for some time because of some zoning and environmental problems. The “triangle” will not be completely occupied by new development because some businesses …the tire business on the north end and the used car business on the south end (to name two) would not sell out.
As a result, there is an inadequate number of parking spaces available in the triangle. Also, there is no place for stormwater to go. There was some preliminary talks with Glenbrook about providing parking and using their pond-site, but I do not think that an agreement has been reached with the mall as yet.
This is a complete sham. When this was announced months ago I laughed. It was presented as a development by Todd Ramsey and RCI, Inc. Todd Ramsey couldn’t develop a Polaroid picture. I wish I would have become vocal then but still thought he would follow through on his promises and that local media could actually do some investigation. Walk into the Department of Planning Services and ask about Ramsey. If you’re not laughed out of the office you won’t get a response. Dig into his developments and see what they are like. Uncompleted, broken promises, trashy looking. Drive out to the Lakes of Carroll Creek on Carroll Road and take a look. Roads falling apart. Missing sidewalks. No streetlights in sections 6 or 7. Erosion so bad the utilities are exposed. I have a list of 30 more problems that haven’t been addressed. County officials are well aware of the problems but turn a blind eye. Now he cut’s a deal with the mayor’s brother to complete this project? It’ll be half-assed at best if it even gets off the ground. If you think I’m just a little bitter, yes. I’m the president of the Carroll Creek Homeowners Association representing 506 home owners that live in one of Todd’s “developments”. Write and I’ll be happy to show you around.
Wow, couldn’t that 250K helped the poor and disabled get to appointments, jobs and class on time?
Kent, this is city tax dollars and City Utilities money. This is a community project by a private company. If Parkview was proposing the same project I would support the $250,000 for them as well.
So what is your point?
Looks to me as though Ramsey is capable of pulling this off, here’s a few of his commercial developments.
Auburn, IN - Home Depot, Cracker Barrel, Fire Mountain Grill, 8 Screen Theatre, other retailers
Fort Wayne - 125 Acre Industrial Park, 150 Acre Industrial Park, Airport Office Park, North Clinton Business Park, Stellhorn Crossing, several more also but I’m tired of typing.
Point is, Tom Wolf doesn’t know much about development and is obviously biased against this developer. If you don’t like it, why don’t you go try and build something on this brownfield site? Should be easy……right?
i can’t beleive that the city would just give mcmillen ice arena and everything in it to a privite company for free? this is the only way that the new rink could be built. why wasn’t mcmillen offered to other management companys to run?
shouldn’t this new ice arena be part of the new “harrison square area” downtown? Isn’t that where everyone wants to be now, in the revitalized downtown???
Mike,
Yes, I am biased. I dodged potholes deeper than a foot in the spring, have had a water leak in front of my house for 3 years, lived with over grown lots at intersections where you have to pull out at risk into the intersection to see oncoming traffic. I live in one of at least two unfinished subdivisions Ramsey has “developed”. I too could go on forever. I want it fixed. Don’t know much about development? Pretty easy to to do commercial property in fast growing areas. Again, drive out to the Lakes of Carroll Creek and take a look. It’s easy to get on the internet and see what Todd has “developed”. Living in one of the “developments” is another story. What truly amazes me is that nobody in local government will do their job. And if anyone in government claims they don’t know about this they’re just not truthful. I responded to the News-Sentinel article and WANE-TV’s broadcast with my contact info the night both were presented. I’ve yet to receive a response from either. Too be clear, I’m not against the ice rink. Just want this developer to finish his prior projects. One other thing, do your homework and again talk to the Department of Planning Services, the Town of Huntertown and the County Commissioners. They know the truth. If you’d like a personal tour you can contact me at president@carroll-creek.com and I’ll show you around.
i feel sorry for the kids.
what happens when this rink goes belly up in 5 years. the city going to bail them out?
todd gets this money and the kids suffer.
This is a private investment.
“Canlan Ice Sports is the largest private sector developer and operator of recreational ice sports facilities in North America. The company’s success in the recreation industry is attributed to a combination of innovative programming and world-class facilities.”
Look them up….
http://www.canlanicesports.com/Current_Projects.ashx?lang=en
Has anyone talked to other management companies? Is the city going to do an RFP process before getting rid of McMillen?
I dug in to Canlan a little, it seems they were almost bankrupt this past July but got a loan to cover their $50,000,000 debt that was coming due.
All of their other projects have some government subsidies to cover operating costs.
Look what they did in Wichita. They raised prices on private groups to drive kids to their (lower priced) programs, and when the private organization died they raised prices on their house programs.
I saw that McMillen was doing programs for disabled kids, will those programs be allowed to continue?
Finally, is it really ethical for a mayor to push a project through that his brother is a partner in? But then again, based on the happenings at the Public Safety Academy, I don’t think Tom Henry loses any sleep of ethics issues…
Don’t give up on Ice Sports WichitaAt its Tuesday meeting, the Wichita City Council is expected to consider putting another $25,000 into Ice Sports Wichita, on top of $50,000 approved in May. City staff appears to have made good efforts to stabilize the troubled rink, but more cash is needed due to difficulty terminating the management contract with Canlan Ice Sports, the cancellation of a youth hockey tournament in May, the bankruptcy of tenant Wichita Thunder, and a failure of the refrigeration plant and compressor. Clearly, lousy luck is making a bad situation worse. But the city needs to keep trying to right the rink’s course and find it capable new management. This is a precious community asset that should have a bright future as part of a reinvented downtown.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
Canlan ice consultants imported a manager from Canada who during his three year temporary stay in Wichita managed to run the attendance into the ground. With virtually no oversight from city council, the facility tanked. It’s now attempting to pull itself up by its ice skating shoe strings.
The Skating rink saga continues with the court awarding Canlan Ice Sports (the management company) US$ 119,000.00. (Wichita Eagle - no subscription required) This represents the amount Wichita City Holdings was obligated to pay according to the terms of the contract they voluntary entered into in 1996.
And who can blame WCH for wanting to renege on the deal? They didn’t want to keep paying the management company and also have to pay for the losses that have continued to accumulate. Who would? Unfortunately for WCH that’s how capitalism works - fail to provide services that consumers demand and you will find that your revenue will not be enough to cover your expenses. A rational investor would realize it’s time to liquidate this investment and find a new opportunity.
A similar project went up in Wichita under Canlan and struggled then in September 2006 the City fired Canlan. Rink Management Services took over the project in September 2006 and in one year turned a profit after significant losses posted by Canlan.
We currently operate in a similar market in the City of Wichita and I strongly advise a consultation regarding the impending project. We can offer valuable insight to the development, design and the overall feasibility of the project.
If the McMillen Ice Arena transfers daily operation to a private management company we would like to be included in the RFP. Our history and reputation in the industry have made us the managers of choice for indoor rinks; outdoor rinks; privately-owned stand-alone rinks; privately-owned mall rinks; and foundation and municipal rinks. Our principals have an unparalleled reputation for customer service, quality of product and efficient operations. We have a proven track record of success
You can visit our website at http://www.rinkmanagement.com/ to review our credentials.
i give the rink 4 years and then the city will have to bail them out with more tax money.
I’ve got to reassess what I wrote above. This is not “Spiece on Ice”…
As I understand it the only thing Spiece has wanted the city to do is put in a few sidewalks. What Spiece has done for the city is pay probably somewhere between $125,000 to $150,000 in property taxes yearly and give a well documented economic boost to FW.
How the ice rink is different than Spiece:
1) The city’s commitment is expected to represent about $250,000
2) The city will be participating by providing some infrastruture improvements in the way of a road and bike path along the Pufferbelly Trail.
3) Plans include a management firm to oversee both the new facility and the City-owned McMillen Ice Arena.
I wish I could have been handed the city’s Parks and Recreation volleyball leagues initially for the Fair Play Volleyball leagues I run… That would have saved some time, yes, but that might have deprived me of some learning lessons I needed to know in the process of how I needed to do things to make things work.
I don’t anything about these rink management people so hopefully they’re good. All I know is it is much harder to make a sports facility/gym succeed and work than the average joe thinks. I should know… I’ve rented about every good facility/gym in town and I pay attention to where they’re coming from… and how they are doing.
I hope it does work out from the aspect of getting more out of towners boosting economic numbers in Fort Wayne via hockey. But fairly calling it was it is I do…
It’s about time!! I have been waiting for this to actually happen for years. I think it is going to do very well. There are many rinks in Indianapolis that are doing just fine. Fort Wayne is a hockey city. The Komets have had great attendance since I can remember. I think it will be great for the city and great for hockey in general. Location Location Location!!