Is Police Co-Location Worth $10 Million?
Posted by Scott Spaulding - 10/1/08 @ 11:15 am - Filed Under Featured, Local Politics
From WANE:
“It seemed like perfect timing: the lease on the FWPD’s building will be up in a year and the sheriff’s department’s been looking for a new home for quite a while.
But in the end, it all came down to money.
County and city leaders met Tuesday afternoon to discuss the cost of putting both departments into one building. It would run more than $20 million and officials say they’re $10 million short.
Both sides say they’re disappointed, but feel they’ve made the right decision for taxpayers.”
[...]
“County Councilman Nelson Peters says, “I think that it’s important to keep in mind those people that we represent - the taxpayers - who would effectively have to pick up that bill and ask the question as to whether a $10 million pricetag at this point is worth having city and county police in one building.”"
What say you, Fort Wayne Politics readers?
Would it be beneficial to the long-term health of Fort Wayne and Allen County to scrounge up $10 million in order to have both police departments located together at the City-County Building?
Should our elected representatives find a way to make it work or should they let each party go their own separate ways?
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19 Responses to “Is Police Co-Location Worth $10 Million?”
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(this was my post over @ WGDT)
Somebody seriously dropped the ball on this one.
“If city police continued leasing the Creighton Avenue building, the county renovated the New Haven Avenue building and nothing else changed, local government would spend $30 million over the same 10 years – a $10 million difference, Peters said.”
But something is going to change:
“Rebecca Karcher, spokeswoman for Henry, said the police department does not plan to extend its lease at its Creighton Avenue headquarters that expires next September. “To stay in that facility is also pretty much cost-prohibitive at this point,” Karcher said.
And if you (police & sheriff’s departments) can honestly say that you cannot save $1 million in operating costs a year over the next ten years by combining offices to make that initial investment by tax payers worth it in the long run then you are one sorry manager of taxpayers’ dollars to begin with.
I have never known a community to be so afraid of government efficiency. This is an outrage.
Ask Mr. “conservative ???” Peters how in the heck he and his cronies can OK an unneeded, expensive and impossible-to-justify “bridge-over-old-human- waste” between Fort Wayne and New Haven when less than 1/5th of it’s cost would enable some real, dollars on paper, savings to Allen County taxpayers? And at the same time when individuals and businesses can’t float any loans because of other Federal government screwups - one of which is (conservative??) Mark Souder’s earmark of $11 million for this dumb bridge. This is the earmark about which Mr. Peters said, ” I thought that I was elected to get as much money from Washington that I could.” This from a guy who calls himself a conservative! I question if he is even a real Republican politically.
I must have a couple of bolts missing in my head because this is nearly as funny as some of other crap we get from the people we elect. Like the Condos will be sold out in weeks!
1- We have a City-County Building that serves us well now.
2- We want to move everyone from that building to a building that we would have to nearly be gut-out to make it workable for “new” City-County offices.
3- Once the current City-County building would be vacated we would gut-out a large area of the building to make it work for the FWPD/ACSD.
That is two massive moves and two buildings needing rehabbed to be used!
Now I am not the quickest or smartest person around but would not the costs be a great deal less if we only had one builing to rehab and one set of moves?
You get what you pay for…. As long as people vote for someone because there is either a “D” or “R” next to their name we will continue to get this same crap.
Why would we not build one building in Fort Wayne that would serve the needs of our FWPD/ACSD that fits their needs and our’s for the next 25-40 years?
I know, it is a stupid idea…. Sorry for thinking!
While there appears to be few time J.Q. and I are on the same page, this may be one of them.
To continue to toss money in a pit for buildings that for whatever reason have been abandoned, just to benefit some real-estate baron, is shear folly.
As Indiana’s second largest city, Fort Wayne has the crappest buildings for the PD and SO in the state. Add to that the headquarters of the fire department and you have dumps at their finest.
If the politicians are bound and determined to improve the downtown area, build somthing that will last as long as: The Allen County Courthouse, The Federal Court House, The Lincoln Life Building, etc. If you gotta do something, for goodness sake do it once and do it right.
I don’t mind paying taxes but I sure as heck hate having that money peed away!
If the Chief and the Sheriff can’t get along, stop pumping money at them. When the funding stops, they’ll get along!
New construction, eh?
The current parking lot west of the jail/Headwaters on Calhoun might be a good spot - it’s government owned as it is
But does the political will exist for such a thing?
How much would a modern police headquarters for both current and future needs cost?
If we are talking about new construction, there is a spot near the baseball stadium, beyond the left field wall, that doesn’t look like it will be used anytime soon. The City already owns it and the site is construction ready. We could call the new combined law enforcement facility “The Garrison.”
I’m amazed and thankful the plan fell apart. The owner of the former Lincoln headquarters has been trying to off-load that building on the taxpayers for a long time. It’s in bad shape and his price is way to high for the private sector.
The City and County are beginning to realize they have no money. Trending inflated asseesed property values by about 20%, and that is starting to reverse. 2010 will be very difficult.
The J-G had an article recently that mentioned vacant large retail spaces in Fort Wayne that are available for lease. Typically, a large chunk of the remodeling needed can be assumed by the landlord, to be paid back as part of the monthly lease payment over the term of the lease.
Some of the available rentals are too small, some may be too expensive, but probably would cost no more than the huge rents that the ACPL paid for their temporary quarters in the space next to the Lincoln Museum on Clinton downtown.
But I think that consideration could be given to the Marsh building on Maplecrest, Home Depot at Lake and Coliseum, Marshall Fields at Glenbrook, Service Merchandise at Coldwater Crossing and all that space coming available at Glenbrook Commons.
Then again, before any building gets started, architectuaral redesign of the Harrison Square Condos might work …or we could simply insist that the Police Academy at Southtown be used for something worthwhile. I like Mark’s thinking …”The Garrison at Harrison Square.”
http://www.fortwayne.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/JG/20080817/BIZ/808170355
Somebody notify the authorities! I think I just said an AMEN to everything J.Q. wrote here :).
Here are my personal thoughts on the issues surrounding the FWPD & ACPD and some of this could also include maybe even FWFD & NHPD also:
1. Merge all under the leadership of the Sheriff as the Elected Executive Public Safety Officer
2. Keep the cars separate colours for now but change the uniforms and Departments decals
3. Have the County take possession by ED of the Home Depot on Lake Ave @ Coliseum or
the other defunct box store @ 14+69 as a joint command center and operations center
4. Use the other defunct BBS locations as command center East/West splits in the city
and county with the Regional Police Academy in the south as a Station only.
5. One of the reasons they put the FWPD HQ on Crieghton in the first place besides cleaning up a blight area (which didnt really work as well as intended) was to also keep FWPD outside of the Central City so that if something did happen (as in a major hostage situation) the Departments could still respond offensively instead of defensively (as they would have to if they were together in the City County Building) when something happened at the Courthouse for example.
The biggest questions that no one is asking is:
Why is FWPD in such a hurry to move out when they pretty much had free reign for the last decade?
Who would want to buy or use that facility?
What will happen to the surrounding neighborhoods if the FWPD HQ moves out?
Even if they move out, can we convert the Desk Sargent and Special Victims Unit space (to the left & right of the main entrance) into a Station Office to keep a presence in the neighborhood?
FYI cross posted my comment from WGDT
MRev
1- If we can not even get the dispatch centers under one command the chances of combining departments is less then zero.
2- No comment because item one is not going to happen as long as we allow the elected hacks play part in deciding.
3- I am not sure they can take the property by ED. Even then they are required to pay “fair market value” based on, I beleive, two evaluations of the worh of the property. So getting it cheap will not happen….
4- Splitting command is not like the old days. With the in car computers, cell phones, and radio system has pretty well outdated such.
5- The building was rented on Creighton in protest of the command of the FWPD. There fear has happened a number of times in people shooting at the cars and even the building. The building was falling apart when they moved in and is not much better today.
When they where located within the City-County Building their responding to a problem in the building or the Court House was better. They could respond from multiple points within the building and likewise from the outside.
This was shown no less then two times while they where in the City-County Building. Once a person in the Mayor’s office accidently set off “panic alarm” and within seconds offers where flying up the steps, up the elevators, and cars started to surround the building. The other time was some guy, who scared the Mayor’s staff, they hit the alarm. The guy turned out to be harmless homeless guy who wandered into the building.
The current building on Creighton is leased. The city does not own it.
While the idea to keep an officer, be it a desk sgt., should be considered but to staff the position 24/7/365 would take at least 5 officers to cover all shifts, sicktime, vacations, and so forth. At $42,000 a year, per man, it would cost over $200,000 a year in labor cost.
“1- If we can not even get the dispatch centers under one command the chances of combining departments is less then zero.”
Boy, you got that right!!! it’s the old “I want more power” kick.
In a number of jurisdictions police have smaller “sub-stations”. These have been closed gas stations, stores,etc. that are made habitable at a reasonable cost. They are not manned 24/7 but have officers in and out at all hours (reports, arrests,etc.). There are a number of issues that affect these locations with vandalism being the biggest.
While public employees do not require a palace, there are certain necessary items. Among them is a building that is not falling down around them.
And…Rev. White. Color of the car is only a cost issue (the two-tone brown of the Sheriff costs more than the white of the city PD. About $100 bucks more). When I call for a police officer, I don’t care what color car pulls up or what it says on the doors. Or for that matter what color/sex the officer is. Just get me competent intelligent help - FAST! J.Q.s post covers most of the rest.
John:
I understand this city USED to have sub-stations here (like over at SOUTHGATE PLAZA), but they closed in the late 1990s…don’t know why.
…And it IS a power struggle.
…And the FWPD admin. talk very well out both sides of the old piehole.
…And crime still doesn’t go down (despite skewed stats).
There is SO much regarding the “politics” of the local departments that time doesn’t allow.
What I will say is that ALL of you have got a finger on the pulse of what is happening and what needs to be done.
A shame that too few will listen to the voices of reason.
But I’ve already driven down THAT street.
B.G.
Almost every fire station that I drive by has at least 2 or 3 police cruisers parked outside of them.
What if they added on to each station just enough space to give the police officers room for writing reports and such?
The fire stations are put in strategic locations already. It would mean that there would be better coverage and less need for a large building with all the overhead that comes with it.
Bob G.
Sadly, crime cannot go down as long as WE allow it.
In the name of Political Correctness we will not allow our police to truly get to the root of the criminal element. WE will not tolerate “opressive police tactics” such as pro-active patrol and felony apprehention teams. WE only want “reactive” policing. In addition, efforts to increase police effectiveness are resisted by many police unions which allow marginal employees to drag down the efforts of truly good police officers.
John Brown has an excellent point concerning fire stations. Just keep the police officer out of the leather recliners and away from the 50″ TVs.
Amongst my many encounters with FWPD late at night and sometimes during the afternoon hours, while we are settling down after resolving an issue with my kids and their general stupidity, I fully introduce myself and ask questions off the record.
I originally suggested many years ago the fire substations which would be a good way to resolve this issue all the way around but they shot down. To a certain degree we have had success in using the old stations as well as some joint command (current fire) stations, but their are still some issues. Three things keep coming up in my discourse with the officers.
1. Because of space. They PD/FD would be tripping over each other and hindering the more (*cough) fraternal aspects of the fire department,
2. Electronic infrastructure issues: there are not enough docking stations; and the IT1 band in those substations is slower than milkweed in winter; a lot of Fort Wayne’s finest hunt and peck when it comes to typing and those laptops are not conducive to speed just accessibility. Have you read some police reports lately, really, people hire a copy editor for them first.
Hey Jeff,
I know your Cable Fund is coming up for grabs eer I mean distribution soon there are two things that we need greatly that the CFB could force through in funding decrees:
1. Increase the connectivity and resource service areas for FWPD in the field. It will reduce how many PD cars you see parked at a substation in any one given pointe in time.
2. Provide Public Access @ ACPL a dedicated fund for live streaming online so those of us without cable can still watch online. Right now the way it works is they get parts and parcels but not what they asked for and not the necessary pieces to put it all together to work. So what they do get they have to salvage to keep other pieces of equipment running or store and then by the time they do get the other part it is no longer compatible with the stuff previously acquired because it has been stored for so long or been torn apart to save other equipment.
Back to the response from my original comment
One of the things that the Commission on Local Government wants to do or suggests is the Sheriff be switched to a non elected position, which I think is a travesty from the outset. One of the ways to fix that is put all law enforcement and fire departments under the Sheriff as the Elected Executive Public Safety Officer hence having a pointe of accountability to the voters and outside of City versus County politics.
Can I say this… what a load of social noise…
We spend thousands of dollars per squad car to put one of the most advanced and hardened laptops into them. So, in part, they are intended to complete reports from the car and not some fire station. It also makes an officer to respond much quicker to calls over what would happen if they checked out of service at a fire station.
If you think having an officer in some building will reduce crime has been proven to be of little value in places all across the United States. No police department has ever found it served any more then “feel good” and a talking tool for elected bobble heads.
The only value it has offered is providing a place for people to file reports of minor crimes (after the fact) and obtain copies of police reports.
John, has it right…
If you think it is bad today I strongly urge you to read up on Obama’s “Blueprint For Change,” read his book, and search the Internet for news paper stories under “Obama on crime!” Then come back and argue what the FWPD should do.
Rev. White:
One more thought on the subject of sheriffs:
You have to amend the constitution of the state to make them a non-elected office. What would be easier is to consider (should any combining of agencies ever take place) would be returning them to their former status of “Keeper of the jail and servant of the court”. And, I’ll bet the fight you get from the Indiana Sheriffs Assn. will make Spike TV look like Seseme Street!
I think its a horrible idea! It just means more corrupt Fort Wayne cops in one area. There all corrupt and they dont care at all about justice they just want to out muscle the smaller guys who dont have power like they do.
Mr. Woodward: It appears you have lumped all in the same pile. It’s a shame. Corruption only exists because the public allows it. I happen to have known (and still know) a large number of both city and county police officers that are honest and hard working. I know some drones too. When the time comes and your family needs help, try calling your local gang member or dope dealer. See what that gets you!