Questionable union tactics in Fort Wayne
Posted by Mike Sylvester - 11/29/08 @ 7:59 pm - Filed Under Featured, Uncategorized
The News-Sentinel has an article written by Kevin Leininger that is a must read if you are interested in unions.
I tend to be somewhat anti-union. I spent nine years in various industries prior to becoming an accountant. I spent the first five of those nine years at three different factories as a member of three different unions. I spent the last four years as a manager at a non-union facility.
There has been much talk about unions with the big three automakers begging Congress for a handout. Many Americans are against bailing out the big three; in part, because of the United Auto Workers union.
Unions exist because at one time in the United States companies took unfair advantage of their workers. In the past some companies forced their employees to work in extremely unsafe conditions and took advantage of their employees by firing them just before they were eligible for pension benefits, etc.
Those days are behind us. The workplace in the United States is exceedingly safe and is already over-regulated by various overnment agencies. I have seen this first hand; I spent nine years working in private industry in several different manufacturing industries.
I want to tell you some true stories about unions that I saw first-hand in my five years as a member of three unions. Please realize that in those five years I worked in a nuclear power plant, the steel industry, and at a Pepsi bottling plant. Those five years were spent in Nebraska, Missouri, and Indiana.
All of the excesses I am going to point out come from ONE of the three unions I was part of.
The other two unions were ok and did not abuse their power. These excesses come from my time as a union electrician in a multi-function steel mill in Missouri.
1. This mill was in Kansas City, Missouri. When the Kansas City Chiefs were on television the union maintenance people would lock the doors to the shop and watch the game. Most of them REFUSED to do their job during this time because the Chiefs were on TV.
2. The plant had various skill designations and at the time was located next to one of the busiest train tracks in the United States. One of the first few days I was in a building and all of the other maintenance people assigned to that building got stranded on the other side of the train tracks. Basically there was a train engine being switched out and so I was the only maintenance person in the building. The plant went down. My boss (An ex union electrician) came and got me. He told me that he would like me to help him change out a pump on the assembly line. He told me that the company was losing money while the plant was down. He wanted me to go with him and for us to change out the pump together. He warned me that if I helped him change out the pump the union would file several grievances against me since I was an electronics technician at the time and not an electrician and since we did not have mechanics and riggers to help us with the pump change out.
So he and I went out and changed the small pump out and we got the factory running again so the company could make money.
Sure enough the union filed several grievances against me. Basically what happened is the company paid 4 hours of labor to an electrician, a mechanic, and a rigger in addition to paying me my normal salary while I was at work.
The company happily paid those grievances because they were less expensive then let the factory be shut down.
During my time at that plant there were quite a few grievances filed for work I did that “should” have been done by other employees at the plant. I always did the work my managers asked me to do as long as I felt competent enough to perform the task and as long as I felt safe. There were a couple of times I decided not do perform jobs because I did not feel competent enough to perform that task. My managers understood when I said no and did not hassle me about it at all.
3. There was one union member who always made over $100,000 per year. He made about $23 an hour but he “worked” every hour he could and he was very senior so he had a lot of opportunity to work overtime. This employee used to hide in the plant and sleep for long periods of time. He used to brag to me that he slept more at work then he did at home… He was paid for 80 hours a week (all over 40 at over time rates of course) and he most likely worked 15 hours per week in reality. He was one of the laziest human beings I have ever come across.
Sometimes unions are good; however, in general we do not need unions in this country.
Mike Sylvester
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23 Responses to “Questionable union tactics in Fort Wayne”
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Mike, I am curious what you mean by the title of your post. What exactly is questionable about the union tactics mentioned in the article?
BTW, I remember turning down a job at kroger while I was in high school so I tried researching the what the initiation fee was. As far as I can tell the initiation fee for the union at kroger is $66, which is probably 10 hours of a minor’s salary. Perhaps it was just poor reporting by Kevin Leininger….
Mike,
I don’t think asking employees to sign a union card is “questionable”. If you don’t want to sign it you simply say NO THANKS. Has society become so weak-minded that we’re afraid to tell people no on just about anything?
It’s really not that hard - some of us do it all the time. When people show up at my door trying to sell junk I tell them no thanks. When the bogus panhandler stops me 3 times in 6 months with the same sob story about his car being stuck on I-69 and all he needs is $5 - I say no.
It’s a lesson these kids need to learn now. They are going to get walked on their entire life if they can’t stand up and tell people no. There’s no need for a secret ballot to say no - just come out and say it. It can even be empowering…
Mike,
In a perfect world, unions would not be needed. If employers would always treat thier employees with respect and fairness and if employees would always treat their employers with respect and fairness, the workforce would never have to be “regulated”. Why do you think the person you mentioned was able to get away with sleeping? Was there ever a grievance filed against this employee? Unions share the same problems we have in politics. One of them being the “pack” mentality.Your situation with this person sleeping on the job and getting away with it was that the “apparent” majority of the workers were afraid that if they called attention to this persons actions, they would be criticized and outcast by the apparent majority. So it’s easier just to go along with the pack even when, in the back of your head you know it’s not right.
It’s the same in the political world. So many people get caught up in the political “pack” that it becomes very easy just to go along with the “apparent” majority in their way of voting.
Without unions or some form of unions, I believe that some employers would revert back to the mentality of “you should be lucky I’m providing you with a job and you should do whatever it takes to make me more money”.
I can tell from several of your posts that you have learned from your life experiances to NOT be intimidated by the “pack” and that standing up and voicing your opinion in conjunction with listening to and respecting the opinions of others is what truly moves us all in the right direction.
Maybe now that we, as a nation, have been able to experience both sides of the fence in regards to unions, from no unions to unions that protect workers that don’t work, we will reach a compromise.
We are all different. We all have different aspirations. Not everyone wants to take on the challenges and responsibilities of becoming a manager or business owner but we should respect those who do. Likewise, we should respect those who choose to simply receive a fair days pay for a fair days work.
Just as everything else wrong in the world, Mike Sylvester blames the unempowered.
This takes some nerve:
“The workplace in the United States is exceedingly safe and is already over-regulated by various overnment agencies.”
Go tell a coal miner that Mikey. Oh wait, they actually work for a living. They don’t profit from wealth accumulated over generations. So the readers of FWP aren’t likely to hear about they’re problems.
Oops, that should be “their” problems
Kevin Leininger and everyone else is missing the point that Kroger as well as the Retail Clerks (or whatever union is in question) have an obligation to inform the Scott employees of their rights during the union sign-up.
Indiana is a Forced Unionism state which means that paying union dues is not an option if the union organizes a workplace or are permitted to represent employees by agreement with the employer. Kroger stores were union, Scott’s were not, so it follows that the existing contract with Kroger would survive.
That said, a dues-paying union member is not required to participate in any union activities. We can save the employee’s earnings from union robbery by passing a Right to Work Law in Indiana.
Justin,
I did not discuss the questionable tactics; Leininger did that in the article; I just ranted.
Mike
Jeff,
I do understand your point of view on this; however, the fairest way to handle it is through an election with a secret vote. Otherwise you have no way of knowing if the workers were initimidated (By the union or the company).
It is a lot harder to commit fraud during an actual election rather then just forgning signatures on cards.
Mike
D. Baker:
I stood up against the union several times; however, I never filed complaints against other union workers for sleeping on the job, etc.
I have never been part of the “herd”; however, I am sure that the union would ave made my life 100% unbearable had I tried to get another union worker fired…
Mike
Craig;
I am going to guess that you have never worked in a manufacturing plant in your life based on your comment…
Coal mining is dangerous work; however, it is far safer in the US then in almost any other country in the world.
Mike
I worked in factories for the better part of ten years, just so you know. But that would entail you knowing something.
Craig,
Assuming you actually did work in facotries for the better part of ten years why don’t you post some of the unsafe things that you witnessed, what plant you witnessed them at, and what you did about it?
Mike
Several years ago, there was a group of people picketing outside of a local retailer here in Fort Wayne (I think it was Wal-mart.) As usual, the picketers were vying for the attention of the shoppers there in an attempt to get their support for the cause. So I parked my truck, walked over to the first guy I saw holding a sign, and asked “Why should I, as a consumer, support your cause?”
This guy stuttered for a minute and threw out a bunch of nonsensical garbage that didn’t make any sense. He then added “Well, I really don’t understand this stuff. You should talk to him.” He pointed to the guy who seemed to be in charge of the rally, so I walked over and asked the same question. This guy’s response to my question was to tell me that this particular employer was practicing intimidation tactics in an attempt to stop the employees from unionizing.
I knew enough about the law to know that the claimed offenses were definitely illegal. So my response to him was “Well, that explanation provides a reason why you and the union should file a legal complaint against the employer, but it still doesn’t explain why I should support a union in the first place.” Being re-focused now upon my original question, he proceeded to talk the same gibberish as the other guy did.
This really was incredible. Here was a group of people asking for my support, then when I asked why I should give it they had absolutely nothing intelligent to say. Imagine a politician walking your neighborhood and placing flyers on the doors. Then, when somebody stops him to actually talk about the issues all he says is “Duh, I don’t know.” The first thing today’s unions need to work on is their public image. They should be shocked that the people who purport to represent their cause really have no clue. And they should be as concerned about reports of abuse on their side as they are about abuse by the employer.
Jeff, when you work around others on a daily basis, there are all sorts of ways to pressure people into things that they don’t want to do. When you spend 8 hours with someone else, they can find ways to make you uncomfortable. You won’t see that salesman or panhandler again, but you’ll see that union rep tommorow and the day after.
Phil’s comments sound a lot like supporters of Obama…”I don’t have a valid reason why I voted for him, I just did.”
Mike;
I find your analysis to be a bit short-sighted. It’s almost like saying “I am pro-life, therefore the pro-choice movement should not exist.” The main purpose of a union is to gain economic advantage for the employee. All of the examples that you listed actually support the claim that they are adequately doing their job well.
Now, you could go a bit deeper and say that by pushing for wages and other concessions which are unsustainable over the long-term, that the unions are actually helping to cause the demise of the company itself, which of course would not be in the best interest of the employees. But if you are going this route, then you have to admit that the excessive compensation of management is every bit as responsible for this problem.
So, in the short-term, the unions should try to create a situation where the employee gets a lot of pay for a little work - that is their job. But in the long term, it is the fact that both the unionized labor and the management are usually over-compensated which has caused the current turmoil with the American business model.
Also, I think you are seriously understating the reasons that unions were originally formed and overstating the victories which they have achieved. Unions were not just about getting higher wages or less working hours. Pre-unionized labor, many American workers were treated as little better than slaves by their employer. The capital interests held so much leverage over the labor interests that it was not a fair equation. When you take the extreme example of the “company town,” it would be difficult to find any meaningful difference between this and slavery.
Granted, many labor issues have been institutionalized now through our political process. But when you realize that most of these came about through strong advocacy by the unions, you will quickly conclude that in the unions absence they might begin to erode rather quickly. You also have to realize that the unionized labor rate also has a tendency to cause other (non-unionized) employers to pay a higher wage and to make other concessions to their employees.
That being said, I do agree with your belief that the vote should be secret.
Jeff;
I think your argument against the secret vote for unions is no more applicable than it would be for voting for political office. Are you saying that we should abolish the secret vote for all elections?
Gadfly;
It is not totally correct to say that Indiana is a “Forced Unionism” state. A more accurate appraisal would be to say that it is a “Majority rules” state. That is to say, a company can be de-unionized in the same manner as it is unionized. An organized drive can take place and the question put before all workers. If the majority of workers at a currently unionized plant votes against the union, then it becomes disbanded.
It’s no fun to be in the minority (in either case,) but I really don’t see any practical way to implement anything other than this. Could you really imagine a factory that is hiring people and they say “Okay, if you join the union side, you’ll make X dollars. But if you join the non unionized side, you’ll make 75% of that.” The company is going to pay one wage, and if that wage was pushed higher by the unions, then I think it is fair to ask all employees to contribute.
Craig = Smarmy. Now back to the subject.
I like Mike worked at a couple of employers that had Unions, both of them Teamsters. In the first case it was back in the early 80’s and I was training in the office.
Part of my job was to check for damages on shipments on the dock. On my second day I had been on the dock for several hours and upon my return to the office I found a 2 foot wide box blocking the entry to the door. I slid the box out of the way and went about my business in the office. The next day I was reprimanded for moving the box because it was a UNION job to do that sort of thing, and one of the dock workers had filed a grievance and ultimately got 8 hours pay because of my actions. I was later told by a co-worker that the box was placed there on purpose by the same dock hand that filed the grievance.
At my second job at a union employer, (again teamster) I was the manager. The place was going downhill fast. The union drivers would come in each morning and decide what they wanted to do, and when they wanted to do it. The manager I replaced had been a teamster for over 20 years and allowed the drivers to call their own shots. The bottom line was the local operation was losing close to 7 cents for every dollar it generated. The average number of stops, (pickups and deliveries) the drivers made each day was about 6-7. Our non-union competitors were making over 22-25 stops per day. To break the cycle, I came in and worked all weekend by myself, and loaded each trailer with anywhere from 15 to 25 stops. I then hooked up each trailer to a tractor, fueled it and put them all in a line in front of the terminal.
On Monday the guys came in and about shit themselves. They all said they would file grievances and I said, “go ahead, it will be cheaper for the company to pay those claims than to pay you for non-performance.” I also told them, anything you don’t deliver today, we’ll pull off tonight and put on the back of your trailer tomorrow and we can try again. This went on for about 4 weeks.
During that time I decided to tail the shop steward who constantly got 3-4 hours of overtime every damn day. I took my salesperson with me and we filmed him stopping at his house for 1.5 hours, and taking a 2 hour lunch on the first day. He was entitled to a 30 minute lunch, so this was stealing time. We followed him for three days to get enough to fire his ass. I called in his business agent, (being he was the shop steward) and presented the evidence. I gave him three warning letters and a termination letter and told him he was fired. He was less than 8 months from 30 years of service and retirement.
Yes, this would screw him on his pension.
The guy was obviously in shock and the business agent confirmed I had the goods on him and could in fact fire his useless ass. I then gave him an out. Be my snitch. That’s right, I told him to be my snitch and to let me know who was screwing the company. He did. Without going into the details here I can tell you this. Within 6 months our operating ratio went from 1.06 to 0.97, and the decision to close the local operation was canned.
Unions are a thing of the past. I was raised in a union household full of card-carrying democrats eatin’ up with the union dumbass. I’ve heard both sides of the argument and the pro-union side has nothing left in their holster. The non-union companies are out producing and out pacing them in all areas, and in some cases the wages exceed those of union companies. The stupid work rules are a big cause of the non-productive union ran companies that are allowing the non-union companies to succeed.
Democrats = Unions. Why? Socialism
Phil …
Having been on the management side of negotiations, I can tell you that the term “Closed Shop” is the usual term for requiring employees to register with the union. Kroger had little choice but to open the Scott stores to the union, especially since some Kroger stores closed.
Workers can get a new election for a ‘de-cert’ action, but only if all of the employees under the contract are made part of the vote. It is unlikely that the West State Scott store has a separate contract, so a large number of workers would be required to sign such a petition to get a redo.
As for paying union and non-union workers at different rates, it is common practice done all the time in Right to Work states. Unions are sweated during negotiations and in the end, non-union employees are granted larger increases and benefits. You scratch my back …
Union-management relationships are always adversarial, so management promotes “team” unity among non-union folks.
Phil,
We do in some cases such as primaries and I don’t think it would change things one iota if we abolished them for all elections. But I still don’t think the comparison is valid.
In the case of a union I’m deciding whether or not I want to join an organization. If they want to have a secret ballot for picking the leaders then fine - go ahead. But I should be able to stand up and say if I want to be involved with the organization in the first place.
I would say this is more analogous to registering to vote - which is public. I am deciding whether or not to take part in future elections although those elections may be done via secret ballot…
Penny Wise;
My first job was when I was fourteen years old and I made $1.40/hr. My most recent job was working in a factory for almost ten years with my top pay being about $16.00/hr. The dozen jobs I worked between these two paid somewhere between those two rates. I just say this so you know where I am coming from.
In addition, I purchased a house for less than $3,000 and put at least $15,000 into it fixing it up myself. That should tell you a little about my work ethic. To me, the worst thing is people who are dishonest. People who are lazy come in just a little bit above this. Some of the examples that you and Mike listed definitely fit one or both of these types. I have never liked working with people who are dishonest or lazy, whether they are my peers, superiors, or those working below me (and I have plent of stories to fit each of these three scenarios.)
I do not doubt that your and Mike’s own stories are true, but I have to add that I can’t fathom that you two, coming from management positions, don’t also have anecdotal evidence of the people above you telling you to make unreasonable demands of the people below you. If you can honestly say that this is the case, then all I can say is that your choice of employers has been unique.
For Mike to imply that unions are no longer necessary because management no longer makes unreasonable demands of their employees is something that I find absolutely ludicrous. Unions exist to push for better wages and other benefits for the workers they represent, and the empirical evidence suggests that they are successful at their goal.
Jeff;
There is only one reason that we have enshrined the secret ballot into our election system, and that is to prevent the intimidation of voters. Either you agree with this principle or you don’t. You can’t have it both ways.
I don’t think it’s a fair analogy to say that voting on union membership is akin to simply registering to vote in a political election. The fact is, the employee is taking a specific stand on an issue, not just announcing that he will be voting. And this fact makes those employees subject to intimidation just as surely as if our political elections were handled in the same manner.
It is ironic that during the formative years of the unions, the secret ballot was something they argued for - to prohibit intimidation of the employees. It appears that unions only consider a certain rule to be fair if it benefits their cause. To say that an open ballot will PREVENT intimidation is absolutely ridiculous.
Here is the opinion of one well known Democrat on this matter.
Even long-time labor supporters such as former presidential candidate George McGovern, recognize the dangers inherent in this plan. Writing in the Wall Street Journal, Mr. McGovern decried the Employee Free Choice Act as running “counter to ideals that were once at the core of the labor movement. Instead of providing a voice for the unheard, EFCA risks silencing those who would speak.”
SOURCE: http://www.mlive.com/grpress/opinion/index.ssf/2008/08/editorial_keep_secret_union_ba.html