Superior Row Reality
Posted by Jeff Pruitt - 3/31/09 @ 2:38 pm - Filed Under Featured, Local Politics
So let’s see if I get this right. White Lodging, which has an impeccable development history and track record and whose founder is a billionaire, can’t get financing. Barry Real Estate, with a history of large development projects and the full weight and support of the city behind it, can’t get financing.
But a group of people who are putting together their first project are going to succeed where the others have failed? Color me skeptical. Don’t get me wrong - I’m all for this project and if they can make it work then more power to them. Heck I won’t even complain too much about the land we’re giving them although it does seem silly that they can’t just pay for the $68k piece of land for a multi-million dollar deal, but whatever.
Good luck to Hartland Development - maybe they can show Barry Real Estate and White Lodging how it’s done…
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25 Responses to “Superior Row Reality”
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Jeff-
You keep buying into the Barry Real Estate/White Lodging line of BS. They CAN get financing. They just can’t get financing that they want.
Mark,
I think that goes without saying but I suspect it won’t be any different for Hartland…
I don’t understand why the city is even approving the Superior St project. Wasn’t this area of the South Clinton formerly a flood prone area? I remember seeing the damage from flooding in the past that damaged a car dealership, a veterans facility, and other businesses. These properties were purchased and a park area was developed as a flood control project. Haven’t we learned a lesson or is my recollection of history fuzzy???
Steve,
You are correct- then we built Headwaters Park- problem solved!
Problem solved??? After all the flood control projects that were implemented over the last 30 years the flooding problems just moved to different areas of the city.
Anybody know how much of the Headwaters parking lot will be used for the project? How many parking spaces will be lost? How much of a projected increase of revenue for the City/County parking garage?
The area which formerly flooded was North of the Superior Street site in the area where Headwaters Park is now located.About half or so of Headwaters was temporarily under water during the latest flooding episode. Technically there will be no effect on the Headwaters lot since the site is now a public/City lot. It will however reduce the available parking for events like 3Rivers Festival thus making Headwaters a less attractive site for large festivals.I guess that is the price of so-called progress in the form of downtown development.
I was looking through a local web site that listed for sale real estate here in town. I came across the “ads” for the condos at Harrison Square. WOW I for the life of me can’t understand why those ads aren’t selling those units!! When you place an ad for one of them next to a house that is twice the size, which has shopping, activities,etc near by for the same amount of money. It makes that whole project a bigger mess.
It would be interesting to check out flood data from the last few floods and try to figure out just what is happening… Usually the people interested in this, though, are flooded and don’t have time to make their own independent anaysis. What a freaking arrogant thing to say though… “Problem solved!”
Here is a fact- for the city to do ANY flood control project, like Headwaters, they have to get permits from IDEM. If the project just “moves the problem” the permit will NOT be issued.
So headwaters SOLVED a problem, just like the flood basins at Swinney park, to ALLEVIATE flooding in other parts of the city.
Nothing arrogant about it.
Are other areas flooding? Sure. But they most likely always have, and the steps that have been taken have not had a negative affect on those areas.
Tim,
I find it interesting when you point out that places OTHER than Harrison Square “have activities, etc. near…”
A local radio host used to slam harrison square (he has stopped recently as his employer is one of the ballpark sponsors). He said, “NO ONE will live downtown because there is no grocery store.”
So I did some research. There were 3 grocery stores CLOSER to Harrison Square than this particular radio host has to his home in Cherry Hill.
So why would ANYONE live in Cherry Hill? There are no grocery stores nearby????
The St. Joe was a lot worse than people realized on this last one.
For many, the primary attraction for downtown living is that everything is within walking distance. At the time, the primary reason I moved from Midtown Crossing was the closing of Tapp’s.
Mike,
It is important to note that you may see more flooding in different areas at different flood events.
This is not simply a matter of HOW much water there is- it involves how much water, where did it fall, where does it enter the river, how much water has there been already, etc.
I travelled along Westbrook during this last flood, it was better than it had been in the past at that point, but some parts were impassable.
Kevin,
As a boy growing up on the near southwest part of FTW, I NEVER remember the residential Hartman Rd. area next to Foster Park and the golf course ever flooding.
And I am becoming more pessimistic in my advancing years to believe “the government will fix it and make everything all right.”
Technology has helped to deal with some of the flooding issues, but it still comes down to..”if there has been flooding in the past, the potential for future flooding still is possible, and current policy discourages development in that area….(common sense) says…I probably should stay away from there.”
Steve,
Again, flooding is determined by a lot of factors. It is not, and will not be, an exact science.
neither is government
Kevin,
Why do people live at Cherry Hill?
It has been my observation that many people want to live close to where they work and shop, and as far away from lower income people as possible. You can’t always have both, but expensive housing needs one or the other. Downtown is too close to the South Side for upper class people to want to live there.
“Downtown is too close to the South Side for upper class people to want to live there.”
I’ll be sure to pass that on to some of my friends who live at Midtown, Three Rivers, and the West Central neighborhood.
Robert,
My point is that the people making the argument that no one would live downtown because there is no grocery store have the exact same problem where they live.
Paul- you know how I feel- I live in West Central!
Don’t know who will live there. The only thing this will do is reduce the number of parking places closest to Headwaters Park. So let me get this straight for Germanfest I’m now gonna have to walk alot farther to get to the beer tents. No one is going to want to come to any of the festivals if they have to walk more than 100 feet to park their cars. The wife is already complaining about finding a parking spot at Glenbrook and now we will have to walk even more when we come downtown in the summer. Who are the geniuses coming up with this anyways ? Traffic is already too congested downtown as is. If someone had any brains they would have extended a business loop for I-69 and cut right through the downtown like every other American city. Easy in. Easy out.
“Again, flooding is determined by a lot of factors. It is not, and will not be, an exact science.”
Actually it is a science. Its called hydrology. I’m not sure what you mean by “exact” but its better than most geological sciences.
There are 2 main factors in the current flood issues. There is less ground space for water to be absorbed on the north side of town (upriver). This means more runoff flowing into the rivers.
Also flood prevention projects implemented cause the water to be channelled downstream to the nearest areas of least resistance. Those areas are now the new flood areas.
Basically what I’m saying is the “experts” may know how to fix a specific flooding problem but they are idiots when it comes to understanding unintended consequences.(that last part applies to others beyond the flooding issue as well and more to the point of this post)
Chap,
The walk will do you good!
;)
If you paid attention to the Superior Street site during this last flood, the water came across Clinton and up onto the Headwaters Parking Lot.
If you go to Around the Fort Wayne blog, you can see where the water extended on the lot.
Building in the area is a ridiculous idea. And, let me tell you, you won’t convince me that what the City has done with walls, levees, and berms hasn’t impacted my corner of Thieme Drive, West Berry Street, and Nelson Street.
The City completed the walling off of the Nebraska Neighborhood in 2001. We have now flooded 5 times in 6 years at this intersection.
But, gee, if I mention that I think it might be because the City is continuously slapping up barriers and driving the water to our low spot, the the all-knowing engineer acts like I don’t know what I am talking about - I guess because I am not an engineer.
Toby - it is nice to see that others understand the concept of unintended consequences and the dynamics of trying to wall in rivers.
I’m sure that Mr. Knuth would be more than willing to move into these “former” flood plains areas to prove how government has solved the problem. Willing to put somebody else’s money where their own mouth is.
Kevin,
I will concede your point that grocery stores aren’t the deciding factor. But don’t underestimate their appeal. Grocery stores are how people eat when they don’t want to farm or hunt. I would imagine that the radio host you mentioned probably has a store near his route to work. I used to visit the State Blvd Kroger’s a lot because it was along the way between wherever I was coming from on the north side and my house on the south side. I would likely patronize a downtown grocery store for the same reason.
Paul,
The good folks that you mentioned are an obvious exception. Indeed, even if I made more money I wouldn’t move. But many people do pay a premium price just to get away from people they don’t like.