Local Government $29 Million Short; Rep Win Moses in Denial
Posted by Jeff Pruitt - 7/22/09 @ 1:32 pm - Filed Under Featured, Local Politics
In a previous post I discussed the city’s looming budget crisis and thought that people were going to be shocked when they saw the revenue forecasts start to come in. Allen County auditor Lisa Blosser held a fiscal summit yesterday and local legislators found out how big the property tax revenue gap is likely to be - $29 Million.
I’m sure we’ll discuss this plenty over the next few months but right now I want to point out an incorrect comment made by State Representative Win Moses:
Moses also urged voters to educate themselves so they can decide how they want to be taxed.
“Gov. Daniels’ tax caps do not reduce taxes at all. They really shift who pays,” Moses said.
A tax cap doesn’t reduce taxes? Uh, then why will local government be receiving $29 million less revenue? Of course they reduce taxes in the aggregate, to suggest different is disingenuous, but they can also have the side effect of shifting who pays the most.
And people have educated themselves on taxes and my bet is they don’t want to pay any more than they are paying now. Maybe our current financial crisis hasn’t affected Moses’ pocketbook but many people are hurting. Asking to increase the regressive local option income tax is immoral in this economy.
Local legislators, including Moses, need to figure out what level of government services people really require and everything else needs to be scaled back.
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39 Responses to “Local Government $29 Million Short; Rep Win Moses in Denial”
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Taxes are buried in so many different forms that taxpayers don’t know where all the different sources are we are being hit from. I don’t think as taxpayers we know all of the services provided.
I think that maybe our elected officials need to better itemize revenue sources and expenditures - in plain English - so that we taxpayers can begin to prioritize government services. I think taxpayers would be surprised to see how many services we pay for that we didn’t even know existed.
Of course, I would not be surprised some legislators don’t really want us to know all that we pay for.
Again, WHAT gets cut will be the question.
An example- the city does spend some money on the TRF Festival for added police presence (seems to me it is $20-40k, but I could be wrong).
So, is that something that gets cut, even though it could jeopardize the festival?
Oh, no, the Festival jeopardized? No! No! Whatever would we do?
Some things are just too hideous to even be discussed in public.
Steve G: Would it suprize you that Fort Wayne Community schools has three full time employees with the same title, “Adminisrtive Aid, Provides assistance in the placement, transition and services for elementary students participating in Magnet School Racial Balance transfers” ? And they have a fourth “Administrative Aid, manages Magnet School Racial Balance transfers”? All of these work under a Director of Student Services, Yul Craig Martin and one of the above aids , a Corey Martin is in this group. Don’t know if they are related, but they may be. And, our mayor just appointed two of these persons to the city’s “Complete Count Committee” and they will be pushing to make sure all “Racial-Balance” families will be counted in the 2010 census (NOT on FWCS time, I’m sure!) -HA
Also, did you know that Fort Wayne Community Schools has 20 full-time RN’s on their staff?
And the school taxes go up and up and the superintendent says, “we have to lay off teachers!” What kind of suckers do they think we are?? It is time to turn things over - get them (all elected persons) out of office and start over!!
We could go through every taxing entity and point out what is not needed - and we should!
Get real John. Public “education” is a self serving sacred cow which gets half our tax money. FWCS even pays two full time public relations people to constantly remind us how sacred they are. No one running for office on a platform of reforming our public schools is going to get elected. No one already in office who wants to stay in office (which is all of them) has the guts to do what’s necessary to fix it.
Yeah, Jim! Good to see you again
Will the people elected to oversee this stuff require that all of this info be put on the web? Again, even if it would end up on the web, would it be plain English? (no translations needed for non-English speakers, that would be another line item expense)
The FWCS administration resembles the Coats years more and more each year and now we have a rubber stamping school board to go with it.
Kevin,
Only in Fort Wayne would they use the amount of crap in Porta-Johns as a measure of attendance to a festival.
That, is a load of crap.
Kevin,
That’s a very good question and one we will be addressing here over the next couple months. Of course everybody has their opinion on this and hopefully the mayor collected some valuable data on this during last year’s community discussion.
The problem I’ve had with the mayor’s approach is that he literally doesn’t want to cut anything. This process cannot be driven solely by city council. The mayor needs to show some leadership and put forward a credible plan for addressing this issue.
What he did last year, simply passing the buck to council, is unacceptable…
I am not defending the festival- I am making a point- THOUSANDS attend and enjoy the festival- does that make it “worthy” of tax dollars or not.
It is easy to say “cut the budget”- until it is YOUR ox getting gored.
Jeff wrote: Local legislators, including Moses, need to figure out what level of government services people really require and everything else needs to be scaled back.
Fine- However, the budget is what it is BECAUSE the public wants the services we have. Scaling back will be much more difficult than you think it is.
Well we certainly can’t cut back on painting “All America City” on the streets. And City run classes on Homeowner and rain garden “education” is a must. And hundreds of thousands for lobbyists to see if we can change the law so we can vote to see if we want to try to lobby to change the law so we can maybe have a casino..
This is just too tough. Either raise taxes or fire policemen. Those are the only solutions.
Win Moses is exactly right in essence. The reduction in property taxes was accompanied by the increase in sales tax. Hence his comment.
Also, according to the presentation from Umbaugh at the Fiscal Summit, the proposed circuit break created gap is $4 M in 2009, $23 M in 2010, and $29 M in 2011 divided up between ALL taxing units in Allen County (City, County, Township, Library, Schools, Airport, and Special Taxing Districts). So Fort Wayne will have a gap, Allen County will have a gap, etc and they will total $4, $23, and $29 M respectively in 2009, 2010, and 2011.
Stanley,
That’s a pretty generous reading of Moses’ quote.
A consumption tax is more efficient than property taxes anyway as it doesn’t punish savings or investment. But local government likes property taxes due to their relatively stable revenue stream.
However, I supported a true property tax circuit breaker and I shared the idea with Moses. In the end nobody from the Democratic caucus pushed any serious reform proposals so Daniels’ cuts won out. And I sure don’t hear too many people complaining…
You won’t hear complaints- until services are cut!
Kevin,
You won’t hear ANY complaints if our local Government makes the right cuts…
Mike
Having lived here since 1963 I have seen a lot of changes. It never ceases to amaze me, how during good years politicians tend to spend more, create new projects. Take the bike paths. How many millions will it cost to maintain them? I pulled out of the library parking lot and there is now a bike lane. Having raced bikes for a number of years and dependent on bikes up through 1977 for transportation, I find the bike path extremely dangerous. What happens when a driver makes a right turn? Are they supposed to wait for the bike to go by? What if there are two bikes, one going slow and the other traveling 30 mph. Can the bike leave the bike lane and pass?
Bike paths are treating a symptom where bikers are not obeying the laws. They ride on the wrong side of the street, no front and rear lights and do not use hand signals. Now we have bike paths.
It is time to prioritize the budget. The problem as stated before is the tax revenue system is no convoluted that few know where the money actually comes from, only the amount spent. Maybe some of those high cost six sigma trained people can spend a week and make a flow chart of the costs identifying where the money comes from and goes.
Local government has followed the foot steps of federal by expanding services. Did the people ask for them or did a politician propose it to buy votes?
Perhaps I am mistaken, but isn’t the best way to get something done to have the public contact their representatives? If enough people want something, and they inundate the politicians with phone calls, letters, e-mails, etc, then perhaps something would take place in Indianapolis.
The best part about this method? It is free! One doesn’t need to hire lobbyists with tax dollars to try to get something that the public apparently doesn’t want. If the Mayor really thinks that a casino is a good idea, all he has to do is ask the public to get involved. If he is doing this for himself or his political cronies, then you hire lobbyists, keep it as quiet as possible without officially telling a fib, and let the taxpayers pay for something they don’t really want.
Wow, I think I got it! Maybe I should run for office and see if I can get what I want with money from other people. Here I’ve been spending my own money for things I want all this time. My bad…
Here in my little area of paradise called SW Allen County I can’t imagine what services would be cut that I would miss. Since being annexed, services have dropped. The county used to plow our street as soon as once inch hit the ground. The city waits until there’s 4-5 inches, and then take 2-3 days to get to it.
I don’t have city sewer or water, I don’t have a paved street for them to maintain, crime is practically non-existent. Cut away!
Honest Abe, I feel your pain. I saw my taxes go up and my services go down. It is called communism and Fort Wayne politicians love to annex just like Hitler did. Hitler saw that Poland was a great prize and annexed it. Fort Wayne looked at Aboite and NW Allen county as a prize as well.
The reason why the are grew and Fort Wayne shrank were that people moved out because they did not like Fort Wayne. But Fort Wayne is like a leach, hard to get rid off, just sucking the life blood out of people.
William,
NW Allen county and Aboite would not be so desireable if Fort Wayne did not exist. IN fact- they would not exist without Fort Wayne.
And, really, comparing the city to Hitler?
Kevin,
The addition I live in which contains over 85 homes was built in 1952-1955. The city limits of Fort Wayne were quite a distance from me. At that point, Fort Wayne’s city boundaries on the west side were Lindenwood and Ardmore.
I guess the developers were idiots.
It took Fort Wayne another 51 years to get their hands on all 24,000 of us. Then again, with the median house value in Aboite township around $182,000, and when you consider Fort Wayne’s median house price is a mere $83,000.
that’s some big ass tax dollars they were drooling over. We get zip in return..
My property taxes more than doubled, and I’m not getting squat for it. I’ve been in the city for almost 4 years and I still have no sewer system, (but I pay a fee of almost $4 per month to maintain a storm water sewer that does not exist), no city water, no street lights, an unpaved road…
It was a tax grab, plain and simple.
When I lived in Houston, we were trying to get our hands on Kingwood, Texas, an upscale, unincorporated residential community of 40,000 about 10 miles to the north. To be annexed, an area had to be contiguous to the annexing city, which Kingwood wasn’t because Humble, Texas was between them. So first Houston annexed US highway 59 which ran from Houston north through Humble and Kingwood. That made Kingwood contiguous so they could grab it.
Needless to say, Kingwood residents were ecstatic at becoming Houston residents and getting Houston services. Sound familiar?
Evert - YES it does sound familiar:
The City of Fort Wayne adding West Jerfferson Blvd. from Ardmore to Calhoun Street to the Illinois Rd./Jefferson Blvd. (Jefferson Pointe) TIF district so that the land for Harrison Square could be purchased using the excess TIF revenue, (all be it, illegally).
The City of Fort Wayne adding Ardmore Ave. from Jefferson Blvd. to Taylor Street to the Illinois Rd./Jeffersopn Blvd. (Jefferson Pointe) TIF district so that excess revenues earnede at Jefferson Pointe can be used to finance the four-laning of Ardmore.
I could go on, but to what value - NOBODY in government listens to the governed in this day and age.
Abe-
Tax grab? Sure. But you are overlooking a FACT- if FORT WAYNE was not here, Aboite would not have grown. There would not have been shopping, movies, etc. You would, in effect, be living in Bippus!
I suppose you think it is fine that before you were annexed the citizens of Fort Wayne were subsidizing your existence- I pay for gas for the Sheriff’s cars- but they do not patrol the city. I pay for economic development efforts - including the money the city spent to bring GM her. i could go on and on. In my mind, if Aboite residents thought they would get a free ride forever, they were not paying attention.
Kevin,
I understand and agree with the argument that people who live outside the city, but spend time inside the city, cheat the system by not paying for certain services such as road maintenance. However, this could be rectified by a more effective allocation of the gas consumption tax we already pay. But to suggest that they should be taxed to support shopping centers or entertainment venues is ridiculous. If they visit such places, they already pay the same 1% tax fee that every city resident does. If they don’t visit there, why should they have to pay?
A tax that does not go towards it’s stated purpose is totally illegitimate. Abe said that he doesn’t even have city water, street lights or paved roads. Can you seriously say that it’s fair to involuntarily annex people, massively increase their taxes, fail to give them the basic services they should get for this, then justify all this by pointing to commercial services which they either are not using or already are paying for through other means?
So, in answer to your question: Yes, it is most definitely nothing more than a tax grab.
And as far as Bippus is concerned, did you ever consider that perhaps some people like living in that type of setting? That might even be the reason they moved there in the first place.
Thanks Phil,
Kevin,
When I moved to “Bippus”, I moved here because I liked being isolated from the city. I rarely then and rarely now venture into the former “Allen County” outreaches, which are now called Fort Wayne.
I paid taxes to Allen County and received 1st-rate services. Now I’m a 4th-rate customer than gets shat upon and is only valued for its tax revenues.
As for using the roads, I pay the same road-use tax all of you pay at the pump, so you have no argument there.
My property taxes when I moved here were less than $300 a year, now they’re over $4,000. What do I get for that?
Nada.
Kevin couldn’t post a comment here that did not support the tax and spend liberal agenda. He’s not really worth arguing with then, is he?
G’nite.
When Helmke was Mayor, his administration received a lot of requests for the CITY to do something about the railroad tracks that went across Jefferson by Swinney Park.
They tracked those calls- guess what? The vast majority of them came from Aboite residents.
Again- Aboite wanted the city to pay for things that benefitted them- though they were not paying for it. It was bound to catch up with them.
Abe- Tax and Spend liberal agenda? The annexation was started by a Republican Mayor and voted for by (now) Republican State Senator David Long.
Talk to them if you are not happy with it!
Kevin,
So many people who support annexation make claims for justification that seem absolutely silly. Water? - I’ve heard that one a lot, and I still maintain that if you are consuming it while in Fort Wayne, then you are most likely paying for it in some way. Commercial enterprises? - Still haven’t heard any good reply to that one.
However, I’ll give you credit for the train tracks. That was a tremendous relief for anyone who travelled that road, ands there does need to be a way to share that cost with everyone who uses the road rather than just City residents.
As for your apparant admission that screwing people over is bi-partisan, I’ll have to agree with you on that one as well. The H.S. deal was supported by member’s of both parties.
Keven Kenuth wrote “NW Allen county and Aboite would not be so desireable if Fort Wayne did not exist. IN fact- they would not exist without Fort Wayne.”
Do really believe what you wrote? I am now a resident of Fort Wayne, but I did not use any facilities in Fort Wayne. When I shopped I brought outside money into Fort Wayne and paid for my services. The goods and services I purchased included the cost of doing business. So again I ask you, what services did Fort Wayne provide to us that we did not pay for prior to annexation? You could also say that those who live in Aboite and NW Allen made Fort Wayne possible, not the other way around.
As for GM, Fort Wayne made a mistake. Looking at all that has transpired, GM has been a total waste of money. How much did Fort Wayne for the interchange? How many millions of tax abatement did they give? Recently they gave millions more in concessions. Did GM hire those from laid of International when they moved here, no? They transferred workers from other closing plants. So what in actual terms has GM done for Fort Wayne, but ask for money from taxpayers?
Has anyone looked at the Umbaugh study to see what makes up the 29 million? I know when they did the study in Huntington, they increased every levy 4% each year and then calculated the shortfall from there. As a Fort Wayne taxpayer, I’d want to know what the shortfall would be from existing levies.
Little did the suburbanites know it at the time, but they were actually the cause of the annexations. What they should have done was to dress down, drive an older model vehicle, and spend as little money as possible while they were in Fort Wayne.
Thieves are more likely to target people who have money than they are to target those who have none. It was the spending habits of the Bippusians (Bippusites?), naively tossing their money around Fort Wayne, that was like blood in the water for the sharks.
Nice Phil,
Personally, most of my money goes to either China for hard goods, clothing and the like, and to the Saudi’s for my gasoline so I can keep my honking-ass SUV on the road.
And after reading AWB’s chipmunk catching technique my grocery bill has gone down substantially. Now if I could only catch all those pesky wabbits.
Actually, most of our money to import oil goes to Canada first, S. Arabia second, and Mexico third. In other words most of oil imports come from North America, not the Middle East as so many people want us to believe.
William-
Would you have moved to NW Allen County if Fort Wayne NEVER existed? I doubt you would have.
Abe- Sorry you are paying more in taxes and feel you are getting NOTHING for it. What did I get when you were paying a few hundred in County taxes and getting great services? I got NOTHING- but I was paying the same as you.
William-
Would you have moved to NW Allen County if Fort Wayne NEVER existed? I doubt you would have.
Abe- Sorry you are paying more in taxes and feel you are getting NOTHING for it. What did I get when you were paying a few hundred in County taxes and getting great services? I got NOTHING- but I was paying the same as you.
Knuth asks “Would you have moved to NW Allen County if Fort Wayne NEVER existed? I doubt you would have.”
Would I have moved to Allen County had Fort Wayne not been here, yes. The company I worked for was not located in Fort Wayne. The Second company I worked for was located in Elkhart and the third was in Warsaw.
I travel down town very little. Up until three yeas ago, I went into Fort Wayne rarely (once a month). The only time I needed to travel down town to Fort Wayne on a regular basis was to fight a false arrest charge by two off duty FWPD officers, who assaulted me from behind while sitting down having a seizure. This has now led to having to go to the VA hospital on average once a week.
Knuth writes “What did I get when you were paying a few hundred in County taxes and getting great services? I got NOTHING- but I was paying the same as you.” Well, I guess you never traveled outside Fort Wayne? Did you use county roads to go to a friends house, go to Hilger’s Market, Hogland, Monroe to name a few? Without to and through Allen county, Fort Wayne would be land locked.
Knuth hit the nail on the head when he said “Aboite and NW Allen County Annexed areas would be nothing without Fort Wayne.” The problem is this line of thinking. This is why the Airport is a mess, using taxpayers’ money to fund an airline and then when it leaves is left holding millions in debt. This is why the Grand Wayne center has yet to turn a profit. This is why Tax Incremental Financing “TIF” does not work. Fort Wayne Politicians think they know better than anyone else and that everything revolves around them. If we build it, they will come.
Left to its own devices, Fort Wayne would be land locked. When its residents travel to other counties, are they using some one elses roads, sewers, water when they stop fill up with gas, restaurants and shops? Fort Wayne cannot think multi dimensionally and certainly cannot follow the “dollar.”
Fort Wayne wants to attract people from all over to come to its city. But based on Knuth’s way of thinking, they should also be annexed because Fort Wayne serves them. Is the Harrison Square project taxing out of towners’ to recover the cost of infrastructure they use? Any good business model would include all costs.
Let us look at a gas station located within the city. It serves both residents and non residents of Fort Wayne. Do they have two pricing structures to capture the cost of businesses or do they treat a dollar in sales the same? The gas station pays a local tax, sales tax and property taxes. The cost of city operations are divided by the total assessed value of the properties located within the city. If operations cost more, then the taxes paid by the residents of Fort Wayne go up. Do these operations affect non residents, only to the effect that they no longer travel to Fort Wayne when costs go up? Do non residents vote for city council that passes the budgets, no? So when a person travels through Fort Wayne and uses the streets, restaurants, or shops, it actually gets more in revenues than it spends from a non resident than a resident through local taxes collected from the merchant that Fort Wayne says is so vital to its economic well being.
In 1963 East Allen County Schools was rated in the top ten in the nation. It had plenty of money, people were flocking there for the schools. Fort Wayne was rated not so good. So where would you want to live if you had children, in the County or Fort Wayne? In other words, Fort Wayne has to compete just like any other entity for “customers.” If it makes bad decisions such as slurry seal, digging up Rudisle numerous times after repaving to add sewers and then again for utilities, why would people want to move to Fort Wayne or be annexed?
People who moved out of the city had a reason to. It could have been they had no control over taxes because elected representatives simply did not listen to them. If Fort Wayne was doing a great job at a great price, it would have all the residents it wanted.
I live in Aboite and I fought the annexation along with the majority of people in that area. Our battle through the court system went all the way to the Indiana Supreme Court where we finally lost 5-0. So we did complain about it then and I feel we still have the right to point out the unfairness of it.
We paid for our own water, snow removal, garbage pickup, fire protection, and police protection.
The annexation policy followed by Mayor Helmke was supposed to help Fort Wayne achieve fiscal stability. How’s that working out?
Also, the Sheriff’s department responds to calls when needed in the entire county, city included.
My father wrote a letter to fight the annexation. He fought in WWII and found it outrageous that Fort Wayne was annexing (invading) Aboite. He saw it no different than what Hitler did. In this country we vote for representatives to legislate on our behalf. When Fort Wayne annexes and area, do the property owners get to vote on it? Who represents the property owners?
Fort Wayne grabbed Aboite and NW Allen County for no other reason than greed! They saw a way to increase their revenues by spending a little and getting a lot. The annexed areas had not representation in the annexation process and had to go to court. What happens if Mexico annexes California, Texas, New Mexico or Arizona ? What should are response be? Is it any different and if so, please explain?
Larsen
A few points. First, I pray every night that Mexico will annex California, I think 49 other states would cheer.
Second of all, tell your father I doubt there were many Polish who were frequently coming into Germany, working in Germany, using their parks, their roads, and their services, and then hightailing it back to Poland.
Finally, as a resident of the City of Fort Wayne, I would be all in favor of de-annexing Aboite and putting a big huge tollbooth on Jefferson Boulevard. Let those arrogant bastards pay as they go.