My Discussion with Greg Leatherman on The Harrison - Part 1
Posted by Jeff Pruitt - 8/29/09 @ 10:04 am - Filed Under Featured, Local Politics
I had an opportunity to speak with the city’s director of Redevelopment, Greg Leatherman, last Monday regarding the situation at The Harrison. Recently it was reported that the city was considering using the space next to Harrison Square as retail/office space instead of the original plan of retail/condominiums. This caused quite a stir in the community so I wanted to hear from Leatherman directly to figure out what was going on.
Before I get to the details of our discussion I wanted to make a quick statement regarding Leatherman’s role in this project. He’s clearly been the lightening rod for project delays but some of the attacks, such as calling for him to be fired, are unwarranted in my opinion. Keep in mind that this entire project was not his idea - in fact the people most responsible for it are long gone. He was simply selected to execute the project and follow the administration’s plan. Do you really think that if he was fired and John Kalb was hired that anything would be different? Well, the meetings might be more lively but other than that nothing would change because the ultimate decision is made by the mayor and he has no interest in pursuing legal action against Barry Real Estate.
That’s not to say that Leatherman has no input into the process, he most certainly does, and he agrees with the mayor’s position that legal action is not the appropriate step to take at this time but there are other people around the table with the mayor’s ear and some of them do want to take a more militant stance towards Barry Real Estate. If the mayor changed his mind tomorrow then I’m sure Leatherman would execute the new plan to get rid of Barry. I guess this is just a reminder that typically when a non-elected government official is speaking they are not necessarily giving their opinion but are stating the opinion of their boss who is the elected official.
Having said that, let’s get to our discussion:
Leatherman first explained to me the city’s position regarding The Harrison property. First the city owns it and isn’t going to give it away - the price tag is currently $750k. Next, they are not fixated on solely working with Barry Real Estate. They are open to any and all options regarding the development of that property; the only stipulations being that the ground floor must have drawing power beyond the normal 9-5 Monday-Friday downtown experience and there must be 3+ floors of construction consistent with the quality in the original plans.
That does not necessarily mean the investment has to be $14.5 million as stated in the original contract. That would depend on whether or not Barry Real Estate is involved, and if it’s a completely new developer with a new project then that number would not necessarily apply.
This leads into the current state of negotiations. Leatherman told me, as subsequently reported, that there are four entities that have approached the city regarding the development of that property. Some of the proposals are more mature than others, some involve Barry while some don’t and at least one includes a residential aspect and the others do not (e.g. building office space).
I stated my position quite clearly regarding the office space. Namely that downtown is littered with vacant office space and I didn’t understand why the city would push for more when previous studies have showed a need for residential. Leatherman responded by saying that they would never build spec office space there as that would be stupid.
He went on to explain that two separate businesses have told him that they are going to build new buildings in the downtown area regardless of what happens to The Harrison. These businesses thought they should first talk to the city about building on the Harrison Square land. He maintains that these businesses are serious about building new and have no intentions of rehabbing existing buildings.
Leatherman maintains that the city is willing to consider all options, including the one above, but the ground floor must remain retail as previously described. And therein lies the problem according to him. Whether the top floors are condos, offices, etc there still must be enough interest in the retail portion to get a long-term lease signed - preferably some kind of small drugstore/grocery - and that has proven to be difficult. That, more than anything else, seems to be the stumbling block at this point for the project.
In part 2 I’ll talk about our discussions regarding the residential development and the future of Harrison Square phases 2 and 3. This is where the discussion became slightly animated and the differences between our positions really came out…
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28 Responses to “My Discussion with Greg Leatherman on The Harrison - Part 1”
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First of all - There is no way that John B. Kalb would ever work for Tom Henry - it would be a clash of personalities of monumental proportions.
Did you ask Leatherman if an entity other than Barry Real Estate can, at this late date, use the Indiana State Tax Credits? After all, we were told, back in 2007, as one of the justifications for the illegal date of payments for the properties, that if they were not “used”(???) by December 31 of that year they would cease to exist. This, I believe, is the main reason to not take action against Barry.
Jeff,
I ask this question in all honesty. I am curious. You state that this announcement caused “quite a stir in this community”. What do you mean my quite a stir? Were multiple people coming up to you at work? Were people coming up to you at church or school? Or, is it measured by the fact that the newspapers wrote about it?
I certainly never heard one person at work, school, church, on the street, out to lunch, on the soccer fields, at the football game or anywhere else make a comment about this.
I am just wondering how you measured your “stir” quotient? If the test is that a bunch a people on this particular blog were stirred up, I am not sure that is a very good sampling of the community.
Just curious.
Green Jeans,
I for one actually asked people what they thought of the idea. The generalized opinion; “stupid.”
Green Jeans,
Point taken.
I guess in this case community should be defined as those people who actually give a damn about local government and politics.
Of course that particular subgroup of people is so much smaller than the community at large that they are essentially insignificant.
People, in general, don’t give a damn about much of anything related to local government.
Jeff, the irony (maybe not the right word) is that there has been quite a positive stir in the larger community over the last 4 months about what has happenned downtown with the new stadium. People seem to give a damn about that in a positive way.
Jeff - You’re right. Most people are uninformed and uninvolved and get excited only when (and if) they perceive a major hit to their wallets. As long as government just nibbles away, they can pretty much have it their way.
Green jeans, that’s quite a stretch. Can you describe this “positive stir”? People think the stadium is nice but that’s about it as far as I can tell.
Jeff, Wow. We will just have to agree to disagree. People, in general, love the new stadium and most people have been nothing short of blown away when they attend their first game at PV Field.
I’m blown away every time I drive past the Fire Station in Aboite.
Mike,
Would that be the one on Getz Tpad, where you can usually see anywhere from 3-6 squad cars sitting while the boys in blue eat donuts with the firefighters?
That reminds me that I am also blown away by blueberry donuts. Do they have donuts at TinCaps stadium? Might be a good idea…
Mr. G.J.s - Even John B. Kalb was “blown away” by the nice new stadium - BUT THAT SURE DOESN”T LEAD ME TO THINK ANY BETTER OF THE BOONDOGGLE! Still a wild, wild waste of future taxes - ALL THE BENEFITS, financially, are going to the organization, that to this point in time HAS NOT INVESTED A RED CENT on this project!!!
If the goal was to build a beautiful, new state of the art Minor League Single A baseball stadium based upon promises and inducements from an out of state entity that were not followed through on, then take a bow Fort Wayne!
I believe the goal was to get more people downtown. So, that is a success.
Also, I think we are forgetting the exciting news that we know of so far about Jeff’s talks. Two businesses building downtown, regardless of what happens with the Harrison. So, if they do not get the land at Harrison Square, there is a possibility of three new buildings going up.
My question is, if Barry is passed over for this development. What are they going to be held accountable for? A Ewing Street development would be great.
John, I think its great that you are referring to yourself in the third person now. It really emphasizes your insignificance.
Here is my point John B. Kalb. Right, wrong or in between… Out in the community (which I define loosely as the work place, on the street, at the restaurants, on the soccer fields, at the ball diamonds, in the churches) people are talking about how much they love the stadium downtown and are not talking about all of the other stuff that gets focused upon on this blog. That is my only point. I have yet to hear ANYBODY outside of this blog say “Boy I just love the new stadium downtown, but I am really angry that they are thinking about putting in office space”. My point is that I think your “Its a Boondoggle” camp is likely much smaller than you might think.
Mr. G.J.s - Boy, we must move in entirely different circles! I guess I will have to start taking notes every waking hour to match up against your contacts - and I am willing to do that.
So far the only ones I know of who have supported the Harrison Square project are those on this blog, city council and some business people who spoke at the public hearing. Other than that, all my friends and people I have spoken to think Harrison Square was plain stupid and a total waste of money.
Some of these people who were against Harrison Square have since gone to a ball game and thought the new stadium was great. However, they still think it a waste of money. I guess it comes down to people who drive Pinto’s/Vegas and Cadillac Escalade. Both get you to where you need to go. Some like to be spiffy where as others like to be frugal. It all comes down to priorities.
John- You say that Hardball has not invested a red cent- didn’t they pay for part of the stadium?
My update for Wednesday,September 2, 2009. Today I had contact with 21 different people in our town. Not one of them indicated that they saw anything positive about H.S. other than the unnecessary new ballpark - seven of them saw nothing positive in the ballpark - only four of them had been to a Tin Caps game. At choir practice last evening, not one of the 13 people in attendance approved of the exclusive use of the walkway by the Courtyard residents.
Mr. G.J.s, what’s your report?
Kevin - Yes they did, but only AFTER they collected more than that from the lease of suites, season ticket receipts, their “naming rights” share, et al. I repeat, ” They didn’t invest a red cent of their assets in this project!” What they used to pay for about $5 million in bills for work done (most of which was “in-kind” credits), was money collected in advance from the city (plus the $s from the racino in Anderson!) businesses, local non-profits, and individuals. Just like the Harrison - they expected to “sell” all the condos BEFORE they built them - Kevin it’s known as “leverage” or the same mickey-mouse that got us into the financial mess we find ourselves involved with in our country. Someone always looks to get something with other people’s money!
Shocking! Extra Extra Read All About it! “Certified Curmudgeon John B. Kalb’s friends and inner circle are also against Harrison Square!” I gave you my report. I have yet to run into anybody (outside of this blog) that 1. doesnt love the ballpark and think it is a great addition to our community; 2. longs for the good ole days of Memorial Stadium; 3. is fixated on any of these other issues the way YOU are.
I am sure your Choir friends after months of prolonged agony were probably saying to themselves “for the love of mercy, could Kalb please shut up about Harrison Square and sing!”. I can almost see them shrugging their shoulders and rolling their eyes and saying in between verses “yes, John, it sure is a boondoggle”
maybe this is Knuth…
Mr. G.J.s - Todays report from john b. kalb:
Today at a stop at an industrial suppy house to pick up some items for a job I am working on, the counter person, when asked if he was concerned about anything other than the new ballpark downtown responded with, “Why is the city spending so much money on another hotel? Who is going to use it? Our company has been involved with shows at the Grand Wayne Center and all the companies we represent insist that their people stay at a less expensive motel when they are helping us out at the show.”
Later today, at a work session at the Wyneken house that is being restored on Winchester Road, the six other persons I was working with commented, after the same question, 100% all responded in simular ways - “It’s a waste of money” - “All the profits are going to the Tin Caps and all the expenses are being paid with tax dollars” - “And they even are tearing up the best two blocks of Calhoun Street to satisfy the mayor”
So, to date, haven’t had contact with anyone excited about anything in Harrison Square plans except the ballpark.
Stay tuned.
(And G.J., just where is your workplace - I’ll bet it’s downtown - I’m guessing in a law office.)
I caught a Tin Caps game on Comcast a week or two ago (about the same time as the news broke about giving up on the condos)when they were playing the Lugnuts. There was a commercial that came on during the game advertising the sale of the condos. It was complete with fancy 3D digital walk-through views of the different types of units and the amenities. It sure didn’t look like they were giving up but I must say it didn’t look like a very well put together ad either. The digital renderings made the rooms look small to me and the views from the windows looked like something off of Nintedo64. Is this the best they can do to market these condos? Do Ft Wayne tax payers need to fund their ad budget too? A high school marketing class could have done a better job. I’m not surprised at the lack of interest.
Mr. G.J.s - Todays report: I worked all day in my yard replacing the sod that the contractor had to cut through as he was installing a new drain pipe to the field tile around my foundation and then connecting it to the new storm water drain colvert that City Utilities installed along West Jefferson Blvd. last summer - that’s the one that they blocked my two field tile lines that emptied into the old open ditch before the “improvement” was made. The net result was a wet basement for the first time in the 47 years we have lived in our home - and a $3825.00 expense for us! That’s how our city treats it’s tax-paying citizens!
But back to the report- only talked on the phone with one person, my eldest daughter who lives in northern Fort Wayne. She thinks, like you, that her dad is becoming “a surly old man”. She also said that, “I used to be a very positive person, but since Harrison Square was proposed over two years ago, she feels that I have become very negative”.
So I guess you get one vote - but for me that one counts for a lot more than one!
I just hope that what is being said about this boondoggle will make future governmental figures think twice before going against the wishes of those that they are serving - but it sure doesn’t look like it - witness: Tearing up the best two blocks on Calhoun Street for absolutely stupid reasons; the “done deal” on the casino; not following through on thje broken contracts with developers; et al
When are we going to get to read part 2?
Sorry for the delay, I’ll have it up by late Wed…
[...] part 1 I covered our discussion involving the interest from two local companies in building office space [...]