Fort Wayne Gm plant to add third shift
Posted by Mike Sylvester - 9/22/09 @ 4:06 pm - Filed Under Featured, Local Politics
Excellent news for Fort Wayne!
The local GM Plant will add a 3rd shift in April of next year. GM will transfer 700 laid off UAW workers to Fort Wayne. Many of these (Likely most of these) will come from Pontiac, Michigan.
This is great news; it would only be better if the plant had to hire local workers rather then bring in workirs from outside of Indiana.
Mike Sylvester
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57 Responses to “Fort Wayne Gm plant to add third shift”
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I guess I am missing the point about this being excellent news. They are bringing in workers from Pontiac Michigan to work. This work is due to a government program that depleted inventory. Now that the program is gone car buying is back to where it was before the government TEET was exposed. So after they back fill those cars they sold they will be laid off again? OK maybe excellent news for those hotels where the Pontiac workers will be staying.
Tim - A large number of those “transfering” from Pontiac are in the last years of their “30 & Out” and may be working only until they retire which may be before that “pipeline” gets filled. I got this info from a relative that works in Engineering at Government Motors. So , if you are correct, at such a time, local GM employment will be back to what it is now. Does anyone know if the state of Indiana , Allen County or Fort Wayne governmental entities are “investing??” any funds in this transfer of workers?
Lateral move. No net gain for anybody but the union employees’ that finish up their 30 and out and retire on a paltry $60k a year or so with a “cadillac” health plan.
Well, that’s not exactly true, I guess there will be some bass boats sold to the fresh retiree’s.
Tim Raiders,
Sure it is good news for the area. There will be 700 more jobs in Fort Wayne. These people will pay taxes, eat at restaurants, etc.
Mike
Shoveling the chairs on the Titanic. Great, news, no? These are not new jobs, just transferred from some place else. Was GM a good thing for Fort Wayne, no. The amount of money spent by Fort Wayne to bring GM here has been a total waste of money. When the exit ramps were built, the farms bought and people transferred here, what did Fort Wayne get. We waited decades before they hired local people. The interest expense has just eaten up any investment there was.
Now the city has provided tax incentives once again to GM, for what? More people moving to Fort Wayne and area. It may support home prices, but is that artificial support? Will those who do not have jobs who’s property taxes will remain high be any better off, no? Will the 700 new jobs create a new job for a Fort Wayne resident who is laid off, no? The 700 who will move here will buy food, utilities eat out and will have little affect on the private economy. With belt tightening, no one will be hired to serve these new 700. Oh wait, we may have more government jobs, teachers to teach the children, build a new school and more police and fire to serve and protect.
As for the seniority factor, this would be true only if GM will survive. Do you really think GM will survive? I think they have forgotten what true competition is. They have a huge taxpayer debt to pay back. If these workers do not retire within the next 7 years, the cost of tax abatement will be far more than any new jobs created for local people will ever produce.
Wow….700 jobs and Zank still finds room to bitch.
of course, if Obama had not bailed out GM, there would not be 700 more jobs. And there is NO WAY that Zank will give Obama credit for anything positive…..
Knuth: “Wow….700 jobs and Zank still finds room to bitch.”
They are not ADDING 700 jobs, they are transferring 700 laid off employees down to the ft wayne building temporarily to run a third shift.
That’s NOT job creation Einstein, it’s moving the deck chairs on the Titanic.
I pray, That none of these 700 families possibly relocating will be looking for Real Estate in the Angola area. On the other hand, he probably wouldn,t lowering himself to sell to Union folks. Once a bigot, always a bigot.
I have to agree with tim zank on this one. These are not new jobs. These are transferred jobs. There is no guarantee they will even buy in Ft. Wayne. Most likely they will live in Roanoke or Huntington. What do 700 “new” jobs actually do for Ft. Wayne? Do the people live in Ft. Wayne, they might some day? Will they pay property taxes, they might some day? Will they eat in Ft. Wayne restaurants, they might but given GM being so far from central Ft. Wayne, few will?
What happens if the 700 “new” jobs and the rest of GM go under in a few years? We will have more laid off workers and more homes on the market. What Ft. Wayne needed to do was to not artificially stimulate GM into moving more workers here without any benefit.
Kevin Knuth,
I know of very few people who think bailing out the car companies was a good idea. I certainly think it was a terrible idea; however, it was done and we have to deal with it.
Mike
I don’t see how it can be anything but good news. Looking at Mike’s list of the top 100 employers in Fort Wayne, you’ll see that the vast majority are in government and the service sector, which essentially transfer money from one pocket to another. An increase in manufacturing, even without more jobs, creates more “exports” and brings wealth into the community.
As far as bringing in employees from other plants, that’s a company’s obligation to its workforce. And if they’re older employees, they won’t be coming with school age children who’s education eats up half our taxes.
I have a good friend and neighbor from Janesville. He’s in the top 300 in seniority and they’d literally have to close the plant to get to him. He came here because he didn’t have a choice, it was either move here, or try and find work in a town that had no jobs.
He doesn’t like what the UAW is doing with these transfers but it’s in the contract.
He said the workers will pick the seediest, cheapest hotel to stay in. Or, they’ll rent houses or apartments together and share in the rent, so expect no increase in property taxes.
They won’t be bringing their families or their children, as they don’t know how long this will last. They won’t uproot themselves from their community, or their children from school. They also won’t sell their existing homes in what is a depressed market.
By and large, they tend to hang out with each other, opting for cookouts at each others houses over dining out. When they do go out, they generally go to the local sports pub to watch football. In other words, it’s won’t be a boom for restaurants.
They’re working 4 - 10 hour shifts, which gives them 3 days off. They’ll use those 3 days to return to Pontiac, which is only a 2 hour and 45 minutes drive away to spend time with their families.
When I wander over to his house on the weekend, if he has company, (he almost always does), they’re all from Janesville.
The impact on Fort Wayne won’t be noticed until some get the 30 and out and leave. No, wait, that then opens the door to other laid-off GM workers around the country.
No, sorry Kevin, this is no big deal.
As for Obama, read the polls Kevin. The majority of Americans are already fed up with his bullshit.
What Abe said.
Abe (Dan), I am very happy your ONE source from Janesville knows what the guys in Pontiac are going to do. He must be in a real seat of power!
Oh, and about Obama. I have read the polls- here are the last 4 that have been done- NBC/Wall St. Journal- 56% favorable. Daily Kos- 55% favorable. Bloomberg- 61% favorable. ABC/Washington Post- 63% favorable. Seems MOST of American still likes him just fine!
Quit being sore losers- 700 jobs are 700 jobs. They WILL be paying taxes to our local community. PERIOD!
Kevin, what you and the rest of the folks from Oz can’t seem to comprehend is, it’s another temporary bandaid on a slit jugular.
Tim,
700 jobs paying taxes are 700 jobs paying taxes. Paint it any way you like- that is a positive.
When GM first came to Allen County (not Fort Wayne, as I have previously misstated), they rented. We had a few live in our neighborhood. The houses they moved into fell into disrepair. A sub division was built outside Roanoke and it was not looked at as a good thing.
I am not saying these workers are bad, but if they are anything like the first bunch, I would rather GM just shut the doors.
Keep in mind Allen County gave a $27 million tax abatement to GM. I ask why? Based on the plant being the most profitable, had the highest productivity rate and being one the most modern plants, why would they close it even if they did not get tax abatements?
$35 million in 2006 for a parts-staging building, $175 million in 2005 to retool to make GMT 900 Series trucks
GM invested heavily in the plant there was no need to provide any abatments. Just as when they fist came, we now face no new jobs, but transferred workers. The county invests and gets little in return. I see this not as good news, but another handout when we cannot afford it.
Kevin, “700 jobs paying taxes are 700 jobs paying taxes. Paint it any way you like- that is a positive.” Where do these taxes go? The sales tax goes to the state. If they live outside Allen County the local 1% income tax goes to that county. The state income tax they pay goes to the state and is redistributed to later. How well does Fort Wayne fare under redistribution. Keep in mind Allen county has given them $27 million dollars. As an investor I would want at least $3.5 million in payments each year and probably more since GM is a very high risk.
700 jobs, $55,000 W2 Wage family of 4, 2 child tax credits and standard deduction:
Federal taxes - $1,712.50
Local tax - $456
State Tax - 1,581
Sales tax -~$770
local tax = 700 x $456 = $325,500
Sales Tax = 700 x $770 = $539,000
State Income Tax = 700 x $1,581 = $1,106,700
Total state, local and sales taxes collected
$1,971,200
Add in property taxes based on $150,000 home 1% cap and you get $1,050,000. All added together, you are in the whole the loss is over $500,000 a year. for ten years. The “hope” is that these 700 will retire opening up jobs for local workers. Sorry, guys you have just been fed to the sharks.
The back of an envelope calculation shows it to be a losing proposition.
If they ever make a Winnie the Pooh movie, I think Larsen should be cast as Eeyore.
Thankfully, there is still time to stop this madness and travesty (GM adding 700 jobs to the FW facility) from happening.
We must act fast, but I’m sure we can send a message loud and clear to the folks at GM that FW does not want these 700 jobs.
Who needs out-of-work GM workers coming down here and staying in our hotels, blowing money at our restaurants, buying gas at FW gas stations, or buying groceries at Scott’s.
Even worse yet, is that some of these new-to-the-area GM workers might actually LIKE Fort Wayne, and possibly buy a house and eventually move their families here. We will be really screwed then.
Come on all you positive thinkers out there - stop pecking away at your keyboards and put your heads together. There is still time to stop these jobs from coming to FW and send them to another city.
Andy, it’s been skewed out of whack, but the original point of this whole excercise in frivolity was:
Mr Sylvester posted he felt it was good news. A few of the rest of us posted basically that there was no net “plus” to the transfer of 700 workers (temporarily and only for 4 days a week) to the ft wayne assembly plant.
I couldn’t care less if they add a third shift to the GM plant unless they are NEWLY CREATED JOBS. Just shufflin’ 700 union ho’s down from Michigan to stand around all night and take their money back to Pontiac on weekends is nothing more than shuffling the chairs around.
Once again, 3rd grade math is too difficult to grasp, I guess.
While I’m thinking of it, would anybody employed at GM be dumb enough (loaded question I know) to put there house up for sale in Pontiac Michigan, move there family to Allen County, take out a mortgage and buy a home etc..based on their experience with GM’s solvency & steady track record of driving their business straight into the freakin’ ground??? Or are only you non gm employee cheerleaders in Ft wayne dumb enough to believe that?
Andy,
You’re missing the point, and as a former union member, (not UAW), I need to point out a few items.
It’s not going to be a economic boom to Fort Wayne, or Allen County. Some are trumping that it is, when in fact, it’s not, and there will be little if any discernible affect on our local economy.
I’m not saying I’d turn down the jobs coming here, I wouldn’t. Lord knows the Patel’s could use the business.
It’s temporary work. They won’t be staying, and on top of that, their seniority is trumped by senior members already working at the plant. In other words, no bumping, go to the back of the line. I suppose that’s a good thing for the few Allen County residents that actually have jobs there.
TEMPORARY, get it? No impact on local housing besides cheap-ass rentals, which are in abundance, not much in the way of school enrollment either, just temporary workers.
How’s this? Akin to migrant farm workers?
Keith wrote “If they ever make a Winnie the Pooh movie, I think Larsen should be cast as Eeyore.”
I guess you could be cast as Tiger.
That would be TIGGER- “T-I- Double GUH- Er”
Your argument about the $27 Million falls flat- it has already been spent. ANYTHING we get back is a plus.
Everyone,
I still see it as a plus for Fort Wayne.
The abatement we gave to GM and everything we gave GM are irrelevent, they are a SUNK COST. Meaning the money is already spent.
As I pointed out in the original post transferring workers is not as good as hiring local workers; however, it is still a positive for our community.
No matter what, these people are going to pay some local taxes and they are going to spend some money locally.
Mike Sylvester
HOLY COW! Sylvester and I agree on something!
“Your argument about the $27 Million falls flat- it has already been spent. ANYTHING we get back is a plus.”
A ten year tax abatement passed in 2009 already spent. That was fast.
“ANYTHING we get back is a plus”
Ok, what happens if we get nothing back and loose in the process? What is the down side risk?
Mike, I disagree with you on this one. Michigan has a much higher unemployment rate than our area. They have also experienced more foreclosures, leading to lower home values. This means those wanting to sell their homes in Michigan may not have enough equity to get rid of them, but have enough income from working in Indiana to keep their family a float in Michigan.
I do not see many people actually selling their homes in Michigan to buy a home here in our area for a position that could disappear in a year or two.
GM is a burden on the state of Indiana. The suck tax abatements which requires the rest of us to pay more.
I will agree they will spend some money locally, but let us face the fact it will be minimal positive impact on our local economy and could in the long run hurt our economy.
Kevin,
I am always a little scared when you and I agree…
In this case, we agree!
Mike
William Larsen,
You and I rarely disagree; however, in this case we do…
Once you consider sunk costs I still think tranferring 700 GM workers here will be a net gain for our community.
Mike
NO wonder they can’t compete. $60,000 a year after retiring. GM would have been much better off filing for bankruptcy.That explains why alot of americans purchased foreign cars during cash for clunkers. Good thing at least some of those were made right here in the good ole usa. Thanks Barack for that band aid on a amputation.
Obama calls it a tourniquet. Only problem is, once you apply one, you lose the appendage.
Nice
It was people like Larsen who told the government “no thanks” when they wanted to put a highway through town or told the Pistons “sorry, we got a lawn and garden show at the Coliseum, please play your playoff game elsewhere.”
You’ve heard of the moniker the City that Saved Itself? Under Mayor Larsen, our theme could be “The City that Shot Itself in the Foot, Reloaded, and Shot Itself in the Other Foot.”
Kevin:
The 700 will pay Indiana Sales Tax only. Income Tax withholding will be sent to the state of permanent residence, Michigan.
http://www.in.gov/dor/files/wh47.pdf
Gadfly-
I think they still have to pay COIT.
And you are ASSUMING that NONE of them will move here. Some of them, no doubt, will.
I saw the area/regional manager of Government Motors spinning this like a top this morning on News 15. Then they had the obligitory “let’s interview the starving realtor” segment blabbering on about “housing inventory” is great and she thinks it’ll be a real “boon” to home sales.
Welcome to Fantasy Island.
I’ll be the first on record to predict:
A. Not one of the transferred 3rd shifters buys a house in Allen County.
B: The 3rd shift will last through the 2011 buid out, period then revert to two shifts again.
c. The then “layed off” 700 will go back to Pontiac at 70% pay & benefits.
Anybody want to place a bet? I’ve already seen this movie. More than once.
Kevin,
Gadfly is certainly correct in his statement. The only way they will pay COIT is if they change their residence to Indiana from Michigan.
I do not know how many will move here; based on conditions IN Michigan I think some will move here…
Mike
Abe - “Obama calls it a tourniquet. Only problem is, once you apply one, you lose the appendage.
I would tend to agree with you, except for 30 years ago today at 0610 (San Diego).
“LCDR Michael Glenn Mullen, USN XXX-XX-XXXX statement concerning the events surrounding the explosion of number two Main Circulating Pump on 25 September 1979.”…
I then went down to Number Two Engineroom. When I arrived on the upper level, most of the steam in the space had dissipated” What remained was in the areas of the generators and switchboards. I came across MM2 LARSEN in the vicinity of the air ejectors. He appeared to be wandering aimlessly. He was covered in blood from head to toe and appeared to have severe facial cuts as well as his right arm being cut up badly. I brought MM2 LARSEN over to MM2 PERRY at the bottom of the ladder and directed him to remove LARSEN from the space. I then went to the telephone in Number Two Engineroom and called the quarterdeck. I told the Petty Officer of the Watch that “this is an emergency, call an ambulance.”
MSC SOUDERS, EMCS JONES and HMC MALLON had all come on the scene to administer medical care to MM2 Larsen and MM2 NORBY.
I had a Chief Electricians Mate and a Chief Cook place two tourniquets on my right arm (nearly severed). I still have my arm thanks to the quick action of a few people and being ten miles from Balboa Naval hospital.
LCDR Michael Glenn Mullen was the engineering officer 30 years ago today. Today, 30 years later he is the head of the joint chiefs of staff.
William,
Somehow I knew you’d go and get all technical on me. :)
Bill was lucky. A tourniquet is intended to stop arterial blood flow to a injured limb. Unless blood flow is quickly restored, the limb becomes necrotic and has to be amputated. Tourniquets are only supposed to be used when the patient is at risk of bleeding to death and the bleeding cannot be stopped through use of bandages and pressure points.
Ok, now I’ll bring the thread back on track.
Mike, I think that you are trying way too hard to see the bright side of things. It’s like bragging about losing ten pounds but failing to mention that it was the result of stomach cancer. The 700 jobs are good news, but the costs of subsidizing GM still outweigh the benefits.
Robert, I think that you are missing the point. The costs that you are referring to are already gone. We are never going to get them back. You have to look at the effect of adding these jobs from today moving forward, it just doesn’t matter what happened in the past. You make it sound as if GM is getting a brand new set of subsidies as part of bringing these 700 jobs here.
Robert,
I tend toa gree that we have subsidized GM far too much.
That being said the past subsidizing of G is a SUNK COST. It has already been spent.
Mike
Well, then the goal from now on should be to avoid sinking anymore costs.
Its absolutely hilarious reading posts from people that have no clue about economics. Its also a hoot looking at some of the proof people use to support their fundamentally flawed logic. Knuth’s use of left wing sites is unbelievable on its face. The all powerful mighty Obama is falling flat on his face and not even his joke of a Nobel prize will keep us from crying on our collective government cheese before this long four years is over. As for these transferred jobs and their effect on the local economy. Hell yeah they will help the local economy, but who the hell cares about the local tax base. Only liberal hacks care about how much taxes the 700 people will contribute. Are these people going to go back to Pontiac to go to the grocery store, to the doctor, to get there hair cut, to eat out, are they going to commute everyday, are they going to spend most of there income in this community - well no doubt. Come on people - so much is made of tax abatements and other incentives look at the money spent here by the GM employees and families over the last 27 years… one hell of a lot more than a couple of rural farmers would have contributed to the city… have a clue!
where do you get your information? 60,000 a year is not a valid figure for retirees.
Yes it’s a valid figure. If ya got 30+ years in, you’ll have about 2000 in s.s. and 2000 in pension and the equivalent health benefits of 1,000 a month…that’s about $60k a year….
I am one of the workers that will be moving down there soon from pontiac. I will be there at least 3 yrs and be renting a home with my family of 6. The say 700 jobs but only 250 from pontiac will be coming and with only few days left to sign up only about 100 are singed up so I’ve heard. If anyone can tell me the better school districts within 30 min from the plant I would appreciate it. And where they will get the other 4-500 workers they will come from other gm plants or I assume they will hire local people.
Most people transferring will have between 5 and 15 yrs seniority and quite a few will just leave their home here to the bank and move to ft wayne area some may commute on weekends at first but I’m sure they will get sick of it.
Sorry about the double post I didn’t see my first one when I came back to the site and thought it was deleted
Josh - Most people will say that the two best school districts in Allen County are Southwest Allen county which includes Homestead High School and North West Allen County schools which includes Carroll High School. Leo High School seems to have high marks as well. Homestead is the closest to the GM plant. Welcome to the area, if you change your mind about renting I am trying to sell my home:)
Northern Wells Community Schools does a great job in providing a strong K-12th education. The school, although a bit rural, has a number of involved parents and community members. There are a number of GM workers who have students enrolled in the district’s four schools.
Southwest Allen County Schools and Whitley County Schools, in addition to Northwest Allen County Schools, produce decent test scores.
Thank you for the suggestions I appreciate it very much good schools are my highest concern happy holidays
Bailing out any company via taxpayer monies is a terrible plan. It is a bandaid that will only cover up a much larger ‘cut’ within the company.
We should not award companies for their failures, for their mismanagement and for their inability to create a solid business plan during a failing economy.
To stimulate the economy we do not create growth and recovery by spending taxpayer money on companies that can not manage their own monies.
What we need here is for the government to lower the basic business taxes to all businesses and demand from those business they will not export any additional US jobs.
What we need here is for the government to get out of the way of private business and allow private business to do what they do best - and that is to run a business, to create a product or service and to create good paying jobs.
Some management types were recently transferred from the Mansfield, OHIO plant (closed) to FT Wayne and other plants around the country — these people were demoted down to where they started 20+ yrs ago at GM - not to mention stripped of their pride and dignity. All their hard work and dedication did not pay off, these people were put out to pasture. They could have been transferred to the Parma, OH or Lordstown, OH plants till their retirement and most importantly, they could have stayed in their Ohio homes and remained with their loved ones.
The NEW GM? I think not -they are still mismanaged idiots.
What happened to the work ethic in America?
We should have let GM go under!
As Honest Abe stated on September 23rd, 2009 12:52 pm - We are keeping the Ohio house, only renting in Ft. Wayne. It’s like being at College - (it won’t last) back home on the weekends.
Sue - This ALL started when Chrysler was “bailed out” many years ago - that was a big error and it has been compounded since then so often that it brings no attention to our representatives in D.C. -be they Republican or Democrat. We, the governed, are the only ones being screwed! I just hope that it is not too late to change things. We shall see or go down the drain trying!