Downtown Condo’s
Posted by Mike Sylvester - 6/24/10 @ 11:44 pm - Filed Under Featured, Local Politics
The Harrison Square saga has been a textbook example of the government interfering with the private sector and wasting taxpayer dollars. Out of all of the original promises made concerning the project only one positive outcome has occurred; the new downtown baseball stadium is a outstanding facility.
The condominiums we were promised will never be built as we were originally promised. The demand for the condos that we were promised completely failed to materialize. Those companies that we were promised would move into downtown Fort Wayne never materialized. The increases in local property values never materialized. The list goes on and on.
That being said I had a very interesting conversation downtown this evening that surprised me quite a bit.
I finished an MBA class this evening and we gave our final presentation. After class several of us went downtown and had a couple of beers at JK O’Donnells. Eventually there were five of us down there and three of them(The youngest three) started talking about how they would like to live in a downtown condo. All five were MBA students and we ranged in age from 25 - 43; with the average age likely being a little over 30. I was absolutely stunned. We talked about it for awhile and three of the five people present specifically said they would love to live downtown and would buy a condo in downtown if the price were right. I was truly flabbergasted. They all three agreed they would buy a nice condo downtown if they were priced somewhere in the $100,000 - $150,000 price range. They all agreed that the Harrison Square condo’s as originally priced were way over-priced.
I now wonder if the Harrison Square condo’s would have been reasonably priced if they could have sold?
I think the answer is, maybe. That being said they will never be built.
Mike
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17 Responses to “Downtown Condo’s”
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Mike, even if those condos had been built during a strong economy & market and priced in the $100-$150k range it would have been a “dicey” development. The reality is, it’s a tiny tiny pool of buyers that want that type of “home” in downtown ft Wayne.
Remember that part of the point of the condos was to generate enough property tax revenue to pay off the bonds that financed the HS project. To do that, they have to have a high value property located in the TIF district. A residential area will not have a high enough value to pay off the bonds.
The city should cut its losses and sell the vacant lot. Does anyone really want to pay six figures to live in public housing?
Robert,
I believe the taxes from the new hotel are paying the bonds- the condos were not part of that plan.
But I could be mistaken….
Even if completely sold the income from the condo’s could not exceed 2% of the assessed value. That is not much in terms of tax revenue.
The condos were overpriced for what you got. Compared with buying a house with a yard. Even when they were enlarged and the price lowered they were still over priced.
Having a beer in a downtown bar and saying you would buy one of them is different than sitting in the real estate office and opening your checkbook.
Midtowne Crossing was a tough sell and those things were a fraction of the cost of Harrison Square. That was a bad idea from day one. Nothing against the stadium but the way in which that was done and the financing has been a huge mess. But the Tin Caps ownership got what they wanted, a city who is to scared to hold their feet to the fire and a never ending profit.
And, the operators of the ballpark ARE the same people that are profiting due to Fort Wayne’s tax revenue financing of it’s building ! So we pay them to screw us!! WOW! Can someone investigate and report on how many millions this year are going to the Hardball Capital investors??
And, Kevin, YOU ARE WRONG (AGAIN)
The situation is that the MBA students were probably single. Single adults and those who don’t have children are apt for downtown living, however once they do, they leave to the suburbs. Kids demand play equipment, grass and of course great schools. With FWCS the school district, no families unless they are of means will ever move downtown. Thus, the condos are short term living options for these students, and those multitudes of young people in the region.
According to the 2000 census, the most common household type in the United States is two people without children, the second most common household type is the single person. Only about 23% of households nationally have school age children. While its probably higher than that in FW there are still many people who want a choice for interesting housing other than a detached single family house.
The fastest growing segment for downtown housing nationally are those after their kids have left and want a house where they can reduce their number of autos and live in a place where they can walk to interesting things.
BTW, national market data suggest the market for urban housing - condos and apartments - are recovering faster than suburban markets.
No offense Dan, but you ARE talking about downtown Ft Wayne…..Indiana….short of divine intervention you won’t see a successfull “urban housing” development downtown.
Once upon a time in a city far, far away I was being driven down a beautiful street by a real estate agent who told me you don’t want to buy a house on that side of the street. When I asked why, she said it was in a bad school district. When I told her I didn’t have any kids, she told me I wouldn’t be able to sell the house. She was right.
And a condo is a condo. If you don’t like the price of one condo there’s always another one just like it.
Dan,
People move to Ft Wayne for the same reasons they buy a minivan: because it’s practical to do so when you have or want kids.
I am curious. Did the city have to foot the bill for that walkway that runs along Jefferson Blvd. since the development isn’t moving forward?
I realize its not much money but why does this city continue to bend over and grab its ankles on this thing?
Truth of the matter is that the condos were never going to be built. It was all a sham. Just tell the great unwashed, ignorant citizens a lie, over and over again, and they will believe it. The political forces know that us stupid and ignorant taxpayers, after a while, will not question something that is being done “for our own good”. Truth is that folks in the know bought up the surrounding property at bargain basement prices, then sold it at inflated prices to the redevelopment folks and the payoffs were complete. Wonder why some of the sitting council people who voted for this scheme didn’t run again for re election rather than face the hard questions when the project failed. The entire thing was a racket to pay off political supporters and get a downtown ball field, which was the entire goal. No condos…..never was going to happen in the first place. Screw the taxpayers…they’re too stupid to figure out that someone was pissing on their leg and telling folks it was raining……
My favorite is when they talk about how successful the project has been they always talk about attendance. They never ever talk about the development, the hotel financing mess with guaranteed occupancy. They always move the conversation to the team and attendance.
Will see how long it takes the Tin Caps to cover those two windows on the outfield fence and sell those for advertising space.
Kalb- I double checked with city officials. I was correct. The hotel covers the cost of the ballpark.
Kevin - You are being deceived - look at the Harrison Square - PhaseI - Estimated Cashflow Analysis - Sources of Funds:
- CRED $11,250,000
- Project TIF (Includes Hotel, Retail and Condo Property Taxes for 30 years!)
$10,961,121
- Jefferson Point TIF $40,081,824
- Current CEDIT Bond & Land
$ 8,178,787
- Cum Cap Revenues $ 1,000,000
-Jefferson Point TIF-Cash in Fund
$ 6,000,000
- CEDIT $20,000,000
-Board of Works & Parks$1,500,000
- Bond through Lease $45,920,000
So, they can tell you anything - but these are the facts! Per their financing plan, no revenues from the condos or retail were to have been available until 2011 - so to date they can saY, “Nothing has been required from hotel, retail or condo property tax revenue - YET”.
I still say,respectfully, “You are wrong”.