President Obama and the Mosque at Ground Zero
Posted by Mike Sylvester - 8/17/10 @ 12:22 pm - Filed Under 2010 National Elections, Featured
President Obama came out last Friday and basically supported religious freedom and supported building a mosque in New York near the site of the 9/11 attacks.
I 100% agree with President Obama’s original remarks from last Friday.
As long as they have the funds I think any religious organization should be able to purchase any private property in the United States as long they comply with all of the local, state, and Federal regulations (Of which there are way too many).
I have no problem with a mosque being built in New York near the site of the 9/11 attacks. None…
Conservatives and Republicans immediately attacked President Obama’s remarks.
As has become typical for this Administration; President Obama immediately backtracked and tried to “re-frame” his remarks because he did not want to be criticized over yet another issue.
President Obama needs to develop a “back bone” and he needs to stop “flip-flopping” and stop flailing around. It makes him look completely incompetent.
Mike Sylvester
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37 Responses to “President Obama and the Mosque at Ground Zero”
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It’s too bad the President didn’t lay out all the facts
As usual his ego would not allow his mouth to remain shut.
Some other POV’s that may be informative
http://rossputin.com/blog/index.php/obama-and-the-mosque
http://frontpagemag.com/2010/08/04/greenlight-for-islamic-supremacism/
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/beginning-end-ground-zero-mosque
Fred’s first link includes this:
“Let me repeat, in case I haven’t been clear: We were attacked by Islam and we are at war with Islam, even if we are not at war with all Muslims.”
No- we were attacked by some extremists. We were NOT attacked by Islam.
It is Islam that provoked the attack, cut and dry.It is what the extremest point to.Some people carry political correctness way too far.
@John Bloom-
“It is Islam that provoked the attack, cut and dry.”
That’s a pretty bold and all-emcompassing statement to make.
You do understand you are blaming and holding an ENTIRE religion responsible for the 9/11 attacks ?
Kevin is right: “…we were attacked by some extremists. We were NOT attacked by Islam.”
You should probably educate yourself on the tenents of different religions.
Sufism (a religion based in Islam) focuses inwardly on the mystical & divine path to Allah.
The Sufi term FANAA means to rid oneself of his or her ego and be in complete unity with God.
Sufis, who consider themselves part of the Islamic religion, would be amongst the last folks on Earth who would consider using violence as a way to achieve their spiritual goals.
Just because some terrorist nut-jobs decided to bomb the World Trade Center doesn’t mean an entire religion is our enemy.
@John Bloom -
You might want to consider this:
Earlier this year, MORE extreme-thinking, terrorist, nut jobs planned to bomb and kill as many American Gov’t officials and law enforcement officers as they could. Right here in the Midwest.
The web site for the group responsible for plotting these terrorist acts (The Hutaree) repeatedly referenced their extreme religious beliefs.
Muslims right ??
Not hardly. Those responsible, and ultimately apprehended, were all Christians.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8593975.stm
So if a Christian Militia, The Hutaree, are plotting to terrorize and kill Americans, is America at war with Christianity or at war with the extremist idiots who just happen to be Christians ???
Andy, you can always find a handfull of nuts in any group, be it a religion, a factory, or a book club.
Islam (unfortunately as is evidenced by hundreds of terrorist attacks around the world) has a much higher rate of extreme violent acts, plain & simple. Certainly not all followers of Islam are terrorists, but you can’t argue the fact the highest number, the majority of terrorist attacks around the world and specifically against the U.S. have been perpetrated by followers of Islam…
7 boneheaded militia members in the midwest that are accused (not convicted) of conspiracy is in no way comparable to the documented destruction foisted on us by twisted Islamic idealogues and martyrs for decades.
Nice try though.
@Tim -
“Andy, you can always find a handfull of nuts in any group, be it a religion, a factory, or a book club.”
My point exactly Tim.
This is precisely why you can’t label an entire religion as the enemy in this case.
Christianity is no more our enemy than Islam.
Or Hinduism. Or Buddhism. Etc, etc, etc.
Your statement:
“7 boneheaded militia members in the midwest that are accused (not convicted) of conspiracy is in no way comparable to the documented destruction foisted on us by twisted Islamic idealogues and martyrs for decades.”
Its not just 7 boneheads, but entire Christian Nations & armies who have fought and killed in the name of their God throughout history.
Where do you want to start ?
The Crusades ?
The Spanish Inquisition ?
The Irish Protestant/Catholic Conflict ?
The persecution/eradication of Mormons by Christians in the 1880’s ?
(Extermination Order given by Missouri Gov Boggs)
Some pretty heinous acts have been committed by all kinds of “religious” folks throughout history - including Christianity.
So, please don’t try to single out one particular religion as being “holier” than another.
I’m not comparing religions Andy, that’s grade school stuff. I am pointing out Islam has an unusually high number of followers blowing the living crap out of stuff.
You can bring up the crusades until your blue in the face, it’s a ridiculous argument and comparison.
Keep appeasing though, maybe they’ll slit your throat last just for being so tolerant.
I,m not comparing religions Tim, I think its grade school stuff. I am pointing out when the Nation was founded, Christians had an usually high number of followers killing native Americans to the point of near extinction.
Has the King James version of the Bible changed since then? So how is it not relevent?
Tim, watch your scalp!
Tariq Ramadan, noted moderate Muslim scholar, housed in Switzerland, has a grandfather Hussien Al Banna, whom he reveres in 100% of his writings. Tariq also is revered by other Muslim “moderates” (I honestly don’t know where Iman Rauf falls in this equation). Mr. Ramadan has stated in a debate with French president Sarkosky that he wasn’t sure whether stoning women was wrong and needed to convene a summit of Muslim intellects to find out if it was okay or not. That is Muslim moderation at its essence. Tariq’s grandfather Al Banna, whom he reveres, was an ardent follower of the Mufti of Jerusalem, who lived and worked in Berlin during WWII with Himmler and working on propaganda messages sent into the Arabic world which attempted (unfortunately successfully attempted) to connect Nazism with a Brand of Islam. The point of agreement between these two ideologies was the elimination of Zionists, which according to the Mufti, was “kill all the Jews any and everywhere you find them, this brings Glory to God.” The real question here is just exactly how much has Nazism continued to influence the Islamic world and are there Islamic scholars that actively refuse to associate with the likes of Tariq Ramadan? (Flight of the Intellectuals by Foreign Affairs Correspondent Paul Berman for sourcing here). The answer is there are BUT they are increasingly marginalized by the radical wing of the Islamic movement. When the Nazi “rat lines” were going to Argentina, they also were going to the Middle East and their philosphies were not entirely scoffed at there but somewhat welcomed, unfortunately.
Ranger…Does it ever occur to you how utterly retarded it is to take present day circumstances, threats, or dangers and completely ignore them because of previously abhorrent behavior by another religion? Do you live in a completely “static” world?
It defies common sense. Christians killed native Americans in the 1700’s, therefore we need to ignore the fact there is a distinct pattern of Islamic jihadists killing thousands of people all over the world and the US in the name of Allah?
This is a real-time “today” problem, not an illusion you can just wish away with appeasement, they’ll slit your throat anyway.
Ignoring a real threat because of some misguided liberal guilt is hazardous to your health.
When a progressive tells you that you need to educate yourself it is because you don’t see the world their way.It is the exact same thing in congress when democrats whine about bipartisanship which translates to doing things our way.And is a one way street.Personally I feel that after we send the illegals back to Mexico I think we should send them our progressives to run their government so that they might have the utopia that we owe them.
Tim, My post is retarded, but yours is based on,”I,m pointing out Islam has an unusally high number of followers blowing the living crap out of stuff”. Thanks for the laugh!
The 5 worst recorded terrorist attacks in 2009 killed about 300 people. about 150,000 civilians lost there lives in Iraq, for what? Tim help me, i forgot what the latest excuse was. Oh by the way, would that be recent enough?
The point of the story is whether this Community Center with basketball courts, culinary school, day care and a prayer area for Muslims is acceptable. Kinda sounds like one of our neighborhood Churches that offer the same service. There are no spire or religious symbols on the building. it could be a mile away and nobody would know the difference, it can,t be seen from the Memorial.
Gallup Poll released early this year polled 35 Muslim countries. 90% of the people condemed killing on religious and humanitarian grounds.
So by all means Tim, you judge about a third of the world population on, How,d you say that, “a few nut cases”.
When a progressive tells you that you need to educate yourself it is because you do not see things their way.Congress is exactly the same way.Democrats whine about bipartisanship which translate into do things my way,which is also a one way street.Personally I think that after we send the illegals back to Mexico that we send them our progressives to run their country so that they might have the utopia we owe them.
ranger, first I would take issue with 150k number, reports are inconsistent and vary widely. Second, whatever the number is, who is killing the innocent Iraqi civilians? Their own fellow Iraqi’s.
Do you think Iraqi’s were better off with Saddam Hussein or now with the ability to be free of a torturous maniacal murder who gassed thousands of his own people?
And the point is NOT that it’s a “community center” offering all those warm and fuzzy things you describe. The point IS they (the imam & friends) deliberately chose the site to antagonize and agitate, no other reason. The neighborhood already has other mosques nearby and a sparse Muslim population. It was plainly planned (especially the groundbreaking on 9-11-2011) as a statement akin to F*** You America.
They have the right to build it there, the point is they wouldn’t if they were sincere about Islam being a peaceful and tolerant religion, and If Maobama had any brains (or good advisors) he would have said something to the effect of “while they have a right to build it there, we would hope the Muslim community would choose a less sensitive site out of respect to Americans that have suffered”.
Instead he shot off his mouth once again in direct opposition to the people he represents. He’s frickin’ tone deaf.
It’s not about OUR tolerance or lack thereof, it’s about aggressive intolerance and insensitivity of the mosque proponents and the bright side is it’s only going to help defeat more democrats.
Tim, I got to hand it to you. You make Sarah Palin sound like Einstein. Maobama, tolerance,intolerance, insensitivity, bright side, help defeat Democrats within two dozen words of each other… bigotry abounds…enough said…You made my case.
Au contraire Ranger Bob..
Where does bigotry even enter into it?
I vehemently dislike Obama because of his Mao like principles that the state should run all things. Nothing bigoted about disliking socialists/marxists/maoists.
Why is everyone that disagrees with you and the “anointed one” a bigot? Don’t you folks have enough brains to fashion a real case or argument for your cause instead of just calling 2/3rds of the nation bigots?
Are you even allowed at the grown ups table at Holidays at your house?
Bigot, A bigot is a person obstinately devoted to his or own opinion and prejudices, expecially one exhibiting intolerance and animosity towards those of differing views.
See Tim, thats what you don,t get, I could be a conservative and not agree with the majority of conservatives on this issue, so automatically you assume from my 3 posts that I,m some wild liberal. No where to mention politics or blame to any one party, its a personell feeling. I laid out my case without insults and name calling untill the Palin reference. I have a feeling your probably honored by the reference anyhow. On the other hand over the years reading your posts your a smart guy but your undone by your wild eyed bigotry. Your incapable of conversing with someone who you disagree with, without being condescending, sarcastic and rude. Personally, I don,t care, but read the definition and own it.
@Tim Zank-
I see you have a very broad generalization of Muslims.
But, I’m betting some of the folks who tune into Al Jazeera have broad generalizations of Christians as well.
One thing is for certain here - we can find folks from ALL DIFFERENT RELIGIONS who stereotype and fear-monger.
For me, personally, I’m surrounded by a majority of what I would consider to be good neighbors. They’ve watched out for my children, helped me when my power was out, shared many a good meal with me & my family, and so on. The vast majority of them happen to be Christians.
On the flip side, I’m sure you can find plenty of folks in non-Christian countries who would do the exact same thing.
In fact I’ve seen it in action. I’ve spent time in Indonesia, Malaysia and other countries (whose people subscribe to different religions other than Christianity) and encountered some fantastic and generous people.
I’m going to go out on a limb here, but I would bet 99% of the folks all around the world (regardless of religion/country) want safe cities, clean drinking water, access to a quality education, an opportunity to work, the freedom to worship (or not) as they wish and basically the same things both you and I want.
Labeling an entire religion as the “enemy” only succeeds in dividing people further apart.
Andy s. I would agree with you about most people. I am not painting all Muslims with one broad brush, you are misinterpreting (or reading into it what you want to believe). I have stated it’s a fact that a disproportionate (a higher number) of terrorist attacks are carried out (in this day and age last 30-40 years) by followers of Islam.
That is a simple fact of life in this world, whether you choose to ignore is entirely up to you, but it’s foolish to deny it.
@Tim Zank -
Based on Western-based reporting, I could see where you could get an impression that all Muslims were running around in the desert, wrapped in turbans, training for Jihad and ready to wreak havoc and, in your words:
“slit your throat anyway”
But I challenge you to actually move beyond this stereotype. Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia is a city of the future. it’s a modern city that happens to be home to many Muslims. These are folks living and working day to day, wanting a better future for themselves and their children. Just like folks here in FW, U.S. of A.
Step out of your comfort zone for a bit. Imagine yourself living in a place like K.L. and tuning into the evening news.
How do you think the War in Iraq APPEARED to folks in living in a Muslim country like Malaysia ?
Did we look like liberators (as some U.S. News outlets portrayed us to be)?
Or…..(especially after finding no WMD’s) did the U.S. look like it was invading a (coincidentally) Muslim country and imposing its style of gov’t ?
Especially after taking in some of these quotes from our then Commander-in-Chief, George W. Bush:
“I am driven with a mission from God’. God would tell me, ‘George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan’. And I did. And then God would tell me ‘George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq’. And I did.”
Aside from calling the Iraq War a “mission from God”, he also went on to reference it as a “crusade”.
To make matters worse, Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfield presented then President Bush with “War Memos” which featured Christian Bible quotes.
On top of that, a Michigan gun manufacturer supplies rifles to U.S. soldiers to be used in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, inscribed with Bible codes.
Can you imagine the following verse being referenced on a gun that would be ultimately used to kill people ?
“For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-military-weapons-inscribed-secret-jesus-bible-codes/story?id=9575794
Again, putting yourself in the shoes of a Muslim living in Malaysia and learning about this through THEIR evening news, wouldn’t one start to wonder about the motives for the War in Iraq ?
Wouldn’t it be possible to start to stereotype America as a Christian Nation, hell-bent on wreaking havoc on Muslim countries ?
Andy, please don’t just “suppose” things like this:
“Based on Western-based reporting, I could see where you could get an impression that all Muslims were running around in the desert, wrapped in turbans, training for Jihad and ready to wreak havoc and, in your words:
“slit your throat anyway”
I don’t have that impression, please don’t assume you are smart enough to know what other peoples impressions are.
I get it, you want us all to embrace the entire world as our brethren, hold hands, share a coke and a smile.
You too will grow up someday and realize there is an enormous portion of the human race that is simply evil. You can blame it on us, them, the moon, or George Bush, it doesn’t matter. Since the beginning of time a certain percentage of the population has had no qualms with slitting the throat of a neighbor for something to eat, or for not being like them, or for looking at their mate, or just for the hell of it.
My point is, you live in a bubble, and one day you will experience someone truly evil, everybody does sooner or later and your “let’s have hug” and “get out of your comfort zone” horsehit will seem really really naive. (as they slit your throat, ha!)
Obama canceled NASA’s return to the moon goal .Now do you think that was because the moon is a holy place to Muslims. Is separation of church and state only for christians?So much bull shit to swallow and such a small spoon.
“On top of that, a Michigan gun manufacturer supplies rifles to U.S. soldiers to be used in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, inscribed with Bible codes.”
And the guy firing the weapon has a tatoo that says “mom” on his arm, and the bombs we dropped on japan said “this one is for tojo”. What’s your point, the rest of the world must be shielded from our way of life or our beliefs, lest it give them an excuse to hate us?
Newsflash Andy, there is absolutely NOTHING you or we could ever do to make some countries “like” us more. Ever. You are a very small picture kind of guy, how long have civilizations hated one another, warred with one another? Thousands of years??
But hey, a mosque in New York will really go a long way in smoothing over that “Death To America” feeling out there.
You live in a fantasy world.
@Tim Zank -
What’s my point ?
Maybe try looking at things through someone else’s eyes.
It’s a big wide, world out there Tim.
World’s population:
6.8 Billion with a ‘B’
United State’s population:
310 Million
The U.S. holds just a little over 4 % of the entire population of the World.
That means the other 96 % of the world’s population MAY think a bit differnet than us or see things in a different light, when it comes to certain issues/ideas.
And you’d be surprised how much a little bit of tact and diplomacy will go in bridging the gap between not just people, but entire cultures and countries.
Religion has been the start of many wars. It was what King of England used to get rid of a few wives and create the Church of England. It is also how the Lutheran Church was started. The Methodist and Baptist denominations soon followed.
The United States stand alone in the world as a melting pot of sorts. It was founded on the principal that we were all created equal. We could not use a majority rule to violate a person’s inherent right. The US Constitution spells it out pretty straightforward. Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion nor the free exercise thereof.
Though I do not like the idea of a mosque being built, they certainly have the right to do so. When we begin to discriminate against one religion, what happens when the target is yours? Will anyone stand up for your right to worship?
Sensitivity is the true issue.
Concerning the 26 to 46 (depending on who you believe) Muslims that lost there lives in 911. Using some posters logic, are going to do a backround check on those victims to find out what they did or said through out there lives to see if there worthy to be part of the Memorial. So the guy proposing the Community Center does he sound any worse then Pat Robertson?? So those 911 victims who don,t past the test, there Memorial will be moved to a site a reasonable distance away so as not to offend anyone.So these victims somehow missed the Muslim secret code that day to stay home? To me thats how ridiculus and bigoted this whole discussion is. Are we in America or not?
The Oman in charge of the building publicly blamed America for the attack,which many progressives believe. I think we have the right to defend our culture,defined by conservatives,my belief.There are bad people in the world that want to kill us that point to Islam for their point of view.Choose a side .But you will not change somebodies culture.
For God’s sake boys, quit trying to over analyze this whole thing. It’s simply a really really insensitive and inflammatory site to build a mosque, and it’s painfully obvious it’s a losing side to be on politically if you support it.
You guys can hold hands, sing kumbayah and share cokes all you want, it doesn’t matter. It’s a bad idea and everyone knows it.
It’ll also never get built because the construction workers in NYC have pretty much announced they won’t work on it. (you know, all those dem union construction workers, ha!)
@Tim Zank -
Its not just two blocks from the World Trade Center we’re talking about here. Eventhough there are literally HUNDREDS of buildings around the WTC site (including strip clubs, churches, gift shops, liquor stores, off track betting sites, etc.)
Maybe its something more…
To me, it is starting to smell a bit like:
ISLAMAPHOBIA:
“the practice of discriminating against Muslims by excluding them from the economic, social, and public life of the nation.”
“It includes the perception that Islam has no values in common with other cultures, is inferior to the West and is a violent political ideology rather than a religion.”
Because its not just in NYC that we are seeing this.
Opposition to build Mosques is also taking place in TN, WI, KY and other states.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Opposition-to-mosques-in-US-grows/Article1-584000.aspx
Don’t sound too much like FREEDOM OF RELIGION to me.
Maybe we could change that ‘ole Constiution to include a disclaimer:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” **
** Except those practicing Islam.
Andy sez “Maybe its something more…
To me, it is starting to smell a bit like:
ISLAMAPHOBIA:”
Good grief.
Yeah and calling those big holes in outer space “black holes” is racist.
You people need to lighten up.
Why is common sense such a foreign concept to you?
That is how they hang on to power.
@John Bloom-
It was your assumption:
“It is Islam that provoked the attack, cut and dry.”
that brought me into this discussion.
I think you also attempted to link this topic to sending progressives to Mexico and some other generalizations about Democrats, liberals, and so on.
Whether folks are free to practice a religion in the U.S. of A. has nothing to do with sending people to Mexico, Democrats, Republicans and whoever the President may be.
It does have everything to do with fairness and equality - and the First Amendment of the Constitution.
Like we’ve already beat into the ground - there are good folks/bad folks in all walks of life. White, Black, Christian, Muslim, etc.
To label an entire religion as the enemy will get us no where. And denying folks the right to assemble and peacefully worship here in the U.S., doesn’t sound like the America I know and love.
And for the record, I’m agnostic. I really don’t care if people choose to worship God, Allah, Brahma, Yahweh, their favorite oak tree, a paper cup or nothing at all.
Mr. Sylvester, you and I are in complete agreement here. Unusual, but agreeable. You go!